2 hours ago, LHookins said:

This is my impression as well.  And yes you do hit real turbulence near hills.

If it didn't jostle the plane around you wouldn't see it.  I don't necessarily agree that what you see from external view has any relevance.  People have been complaining about external views ever since the first leaked videos, but what you see from the "flight deck" looks natural.

Keep in mind that if the atmosphere is not inducing turbulence and you didn't have the random motion, you would indeed be flying on rails.  Dead steady all the time. I don't believe this is preferable.  I haven't encountered any turbulence in real world weather that wasn't caused by objects on the ground.  I don't think we're even getting gusts.  

Yes - I agree that the external views of the turbulence look a bit weird, but I also think that if feels OK from the cockpit view.

The thing is that implementing all the small movements in a real aircraft would be very annoying in a simulator. Everyone that has flow IRL knows that you have small movements all the time, especially on low altitude. But as you feel them in you butt as well they don't feel strange in any way. You just correct them without thinking. In the same way that you are constantly doing small corrections on a bike to keep the balance, you kind of don't think about the small corrections that you are doing all the time... I was flying with a friend and we came in with rather heavy but fairly steady crosswind. After landing he said - wow, that landing was scary with the plane flying in another direction than we travelled and we where bumping all around the place! Isn't that super difficult? No - the off angle and all those small corrections you really don't think about it as your brain points your flight path to the runway. The fact that the nose is 20 degrees off makes no real difference. But in a simulator it feels very weird. And combine that 20 degree off angle with the turbulence that you correct while thinking about something else. The downdraft passing that ravine at the end of the runway is not a surprise etc. The thing you think about most is the wind gradient so you don't end up too slow getting close to the ground...

Edited August 24, 20205 yr by mazex

Well once they get it right, maybe we'll get a mod like the below video, so you can see how much your passengers are bouncing around.

Pilot "We apologize for the severe turbulence and we'll update you shortly."

Passenger "You won't update me man, put me on the ground."

 

4 minutes ago, mazex said:

Yes - I agree that the external views of the turbulence look a bit weird, but I also think that if feels OK from the cockpit view.

The thing is that implementing all the small movements in a real aircraft would be very annoying in a simulator. 

Yep, in the real aircraft your body somewhat moves with the turbulence (not exactly but to a degree), and in a simulator you are looking at it from a fixed position, so yah no way to simulate it exactly, but small amounts of turbulence that don't jerk people around too much should be close enough.

Edited August 24, 20205 yr by SceneryFX

16 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Here is another thing! To give an adequate assessment to the sim it is highly desirable  that real pilot has some good experience in PC simulators. I have many friends who are active or retired  airlines, corporate pilots who never tried tried my PC simulator before. There is no surprise they approach sim model as real airplane and since sim can't provide same physical feedback as they got to use to,  as the result they "crash and burn". But after few hours or so they got a grip on it. And start showing amazing skills. As they say: pro is pro.

 

Also it's ironic in real world certified pilots still argue who is "real pilot". Some military pilots think they are, some airlines thinks they are. And some GA pilots think neither military nor airlines  are "real pilots", but only those are why fly J3 Cub without batteries in class Golf.  Go figure! As one FAA inspector told once : private pilot is license to learn and CFI is a license to endorse, but neither are necessarily real pilots ! LOL

Bingo....probably the best post on this subject since flight simming started. Flight Sim addict, CFI, Airplane Owner. You are the exact type folks who should be providing input to a project like this in Alpha/Beta. Period....end of discussion. 

Looks like there's a fundamental difference of opinion among even RW pilots on how smaller GA aircraft operate even in still air. 🤷‍♂️

3 hours ago, Chock said:

Except with the Mazda MX5 Mark 1. Anyone who doesn't think that's a brilliant car, is a pillock. 🤣

If only I could upvote this more than once. 👍

2 minutes ago, Slides said:

Looks like there's a fundamental difference of opinion among even RW pilots on how smaller GA aircraft operate even in still air. 🤷‍♂️

That is because we all feel Terror and fear and react differently to unnatural acts such as flying!🙈

20 minutes ago, mazex said:

Everyone that has flow IRL knows that you have small movements all the time, especially on low altitude.

I imagine this is similar to how driving in real life, you will feel, hear and even see slight bumps based on the road surface or small potholes all the time.

But if that were to be implemented in a car racing sim to the same degree as in real life, I would imagine car simmers would riot.

Edited August 24, 20205 yr by Slides

39 minutes ago, RamonB said:

I wonder who thought landing a King Air 350i into TNCS was a fun idea?

That one particularly is the one I still haven’t completed yet... I’ve gotten better at plopping it down right on the end of the runway, but even with full reverse thrust I’ve only been able to stop it once before it overran the runway. It then proceeded to tell me that I didn’t land on the designated runway lolol maybe I touched down past the halfway point.

2 hours ago, robert young said:

As I said earlier, what I'm finding increasingly irritating is that it is becoming predictable in its "randomness" if you get my drift. It is just plain annoying, and even more so that it looks so artificial.

Yes, this +1...  In the Airbus, in cruise there is this gentle rocking on the roll axis through the whole flight you could time your watch to. As if they just layered on a periodic oscillation at a set frequency just for the effect.

42 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Sounds like turbulence to me. 🙂 I've encountered a bit of that in normal landings when there are obstacles to disturb the air flow.

Hook

Yeah but this turbulence didn’t feel like turbulence. The plane wasn’t hitting choppy air or necessarily getting thrown up and down. It was more like it was described before - one of those rides on a spring where you fly all over the place. Nose is up one second and down the other, and not the result of a bad patch of air. Just felt like general instability. And on top of that I was trying to get this King Air into TNCS which is a bad idea to begin with...

1 minute ago, PurdueKev said:

Yes, this +1...  In the Airbus, in cruise there is this gentle rocking on the roll axis through the whole flight you could time your watch to. As if they just layered on a periodic oscillation at a set frequency just for the effect.

Isn't that just the weird autopilot effect? I don't see that when hand flying

7 minutes ago, Slides said:

Isn't that just the weird autopilot effect? I don't see that when hand flying

It could be - I haven't hand-flown the Airbus much except for takeoff and landing.  But the oscillations show such a normal mode that it can't be the AP reacting to anything. Just seems programmed in with a set frequency that doesn't decay or change.

16 minutes ago, FlyingInACessna said:

That one particularly is the one I still haven’t completed yet... I’ve gotten better at plopping it down right on the end of the runway, but even with full reverse thrust I’ve only been able to stop it once before it overran the runway. It then proceeded to tell me that I didn’t land on the designated runway lolol maybe I touched down past the halfway point.

Frankly, I gave up on that one. I wished they had added a 100 mph head wind to the challenge.

27 minutes ago, PurdueKev said:

It could be - I haven't hand-flown the Airbus much except for takeoff and landing.  But the oscillations show such a normal mode that it can't be the AP reacting to anything. Just seems programmed in with a set frequency that doesn't decay or change.

But that's how the autopilot is programmed in the sim I believe. It's trimming but it's obviously buggy.