I am a MS Flight Sim user from way back, paid for software and a dedicated Flight Sim enthusiast. I have a very good mid-system PC (AMD 64 +3800 2G RAM GeForce 6800GT 19 LCD etc) but to make the FSX run with acceptable FPS (Frames Per Second) I have to do what most are doing here and cripple it with Tweaks. It basically now looks like FS9 with a few improvements. This, in my opinion, is a totally ridiculous situation.Like you folks, I have add-ons and invested a lot of time with FS9/FSX. So, in frustration, I had a second look at an alternate Flight Simulator. Most of you know it, but have you been back recently for another look? It's X-Plane (go to http://x-plane.com/default.html) and Version 8.50 was released in mid-October 2006. X-Plane makes a mockery of the scenery in FSX. The graphics are simply astonishing in comparison. I am not going to rant about this because it is highly subjective but do yourselves a favour, take a break from tweaking, deleting, re-installing, and download the X-Plane Demo for a peak. It is bloody amazing. Go to http://www.global-scenery.org/ and click on any scenery area. The difference with this scenery is that it actually looks like this in X-Plane, without any tweaks!! The menu options are huge, and sometimes initially puzzling, but when you take off at sunset, see a wild fire in the distance, cars moving on the ground, a superb cockpit and gob-smacking visuals, you won't be dissapointed.I am not giving up on FSX, or Microsoft (although the Vista EULA is making think of Linux), but I must say that X-Plane 8.50 has really opened my eyes to how FSX should have been, out of the Box, and right now.Paul

Thanks for the link Paul,I must say those are some astonishing screenshots! My personal favorites were the ones from the Boston-Cape Cod area as I reside in Ma. , and I am still completely blown away by the shear number of buildings sitting on top of the terrain!You definately got me wanting to find out more about this X-Plane, and I am also abit curious as to why it hasnt received more support from the Flight Simming community?Thanks AgainCyberSimmer

HiGreat post.I`ve been thinking for a couple of months now about xplane just for the flight models.For me eyecandy is cool but flying is what it`s all about.Pete

I went to their web site and it looks like they want $69. for both X-plane and the scenery? That's not bad and it looks pretty good. I bought X-plane back in 2000 when it costs $175. before he brought the price way down. I figured for that price it had to be good, wrong I was.I also bought Flight Simulator 2 for about the same price, forgot who made that. Both were disappointments but X-plane now looks like it's worth considering. I have had every version of Microsoft's Flight Simulator but I have held off with FSX because I got burned out tweaking the last version and gave up simming completely because of it. I know of no software that puts the user through such frustration.Sincerely,Hans

I agree the models are equally as impressive , and if the flight characteristics are just as impressive, I dont think I would need much more than that so long as it performs well on my machine which is nearly exactely the same as the O.P.'sCyberSimmer

HA HAHAH AHAHA HA HA...clears throat...Seriously though, those "new scenery" screenshots represent unplayable conditions. Long ago this was documented as such on the website, but now I don't see that note there anymore. I doubt highly you'll get that level of autogen on any modern computer today...and still be able to fly the plane.I did play x-plane, loaded up my home airport - and I can't even get off the friggin' runway...LOLWell, anyway - good luck with X-Plane, you'll need it!

Were you using the demo? If so, the joystick is useless after 6 seconds. Maybe that would explain your inability to get off the ground. I'm gonna check it out and see, doesn't hurt to try.Hans

Swambast,I cant say what may be occurring with your Computer, but my mid-spec'd machine runs X-Plane perfectly, and the scenery is truly amazing. Have you tried version 8.50, as I had indicated in my original Post? This is how a new FS offering should be, it should work, it should highlight a programs' features and not behave like a Beta version containing numerous bugs. Nor should a demo/program require purchase of a new PC, new Video card or new Operating System for folks who already own middle of the road (or higher) PCs.So you see, your offer of Good luck, though appreciated, is not needed, and I am quite sure I am not the only one.Paul

I gave UP!!! DLed 8.5 and have been trying for weeks.Ive been around since the first sims and programmed just about every HOTAS there is.But for the life of me can not keep the planes from SPINNING like mad on the ground. Give it some power and to the right I go with the sound of brakes grinding or something.I calibrate,assign,recalibrate,but still SPIN.:-bang Brakes on,off,control deflection checked.Somebody please help as I would love to support any competition to MS. BTW Im using a Saitek X52.

Hans,I absolutely with you about the X-Plane pricing. Instead of perhaps having to pay out time and again for different scenery areas, to get them all in the original payment seems oddly fair. Flight simming is becoming increasingly more expensive a hobby these days so this is a significant factor.Paul

>> Seriously though, those "new scenery" screenshots represent>> unplayable conditions. Well on my machine X-Plane 8.5 with global scenery was very playable with a smooth framerate and stunning visuals. If FS-X would have performed like that I wouldn't have returned it to the shop.Come to think of it if FS-X hadn't performed that bad I would not even have given X-Plane a 2nd look.Still its a shame that a 3-4 man development team can't get your home airport right. With all the money and resources they have? A bloody shame it is I tell you. (like FS-X doesn't have autogen in the way every now and then)

Hans,It is 6 minutes on the joystick input.Each sim has it's yeah's and neah's. I have been primarily a X-Plane user for the last couple of years. I have 8.50, but have just today loaded up FSX. I never really got into FS9, and though it runs great on my lowly P4 2.8, 2 gig's ram, and a 512 meg Nvidia 7600 GS, I find so far that FSX's flight characterists are quite a bit more engaging for myself than FS9 is, at least with the default planes.Try the X-Plane demo to see how it will run. If you crank up the detail the max on X-Plane, it can grind to a halt, and eat up all of your memory, just like FSX :-)Go for the one that brings the most pleasure!Regards,Den

i just cant understand how Xplane can get their sim as smooth as butter and FSX is such a huge problem with stutters frame rates?

I've run versions of X-Plane for many years. Used the demo's year after year, and the bought version "7", and now "8" with the global scenery discs.With my lastest CPU which isn't by any means the greatest, but satisfactory, X-Plane & FS9 with many options run at about the same speeds fps wise. Upper 30's to sometimes the 70's. Both are very smooth at these frame rates. X-Plane's "stock" global topography is equal to FS9/FSX with added 3rd party mesh scenerys, but does not have seasonal changes. X-Plane does not have MSFS type airport layouts either. You'll have to import buildings yourself.I like X-Plane, but still not as well as MSFS. IMO, the default aircraft in the new FSX, do in fact beat the defaults in X-Plane, flight dynamic wise, by quite a bit, not to mention the VC's. X-Plane lacks a feel of mass & dampening. Always has. I don't enjoy hand flying X-Plane all that much. The supposeable superior flight model of X-Plane has been overstreatched since the release of Microsoft's CFS2 combat sim. And that's been quite a few years. :-hah Some may prefer X-Planes helicopter model. I have yet to try the new choppers in FSX.All in all, I'm glad FSX isn't X-Plane. I think that FSX has more going for it.L.Adamson -- Athlon64 3800/2GIG/Geforce7600GS256MB/1600*1200*32

>I gave UP!!! DLed 8.5 and have been trying for weeks.>Ive been around since the first sims and programmed just about>every HOTAS there is.>But for the life of me can not keep the planes from SPINNING>like mad on the ground. Give it some power and to the right I>go with the sound of brakes grinding or something.>I calibrate,assign,recalibrate,but still SPIN.:-bang >Brakes on,off,control deflection checked.Uhm, that's strange. Do you have rudder pedals? If you don't have them, go to the "Joystick & Equipment" menu and make sure that NO axis is assigned ("none") to the "yaw" function (hence, you should have only "roll", "pitch", and "throttle" functions assigned). If you have rudder pedals, assign the "yaw" function to their axis.Sometimes you need to move all the controls through their entire travel at least once, to let X-Plane auto-calibrate them.Marco