Another Noob IFR Question... switching from VFR to IFR

[Virtual-Chris 682]

I tried a VFR flight and as I approached my destination, loaded an ILS approach into the G1000. I got no prompt on the ATC window to switch to instruments as I was hoping. Instead I got crazy altitude assignments. I think the ATC in this sim is not just limited in what scenarios it can handle, it’s downright broken. 

[eslader 1,791]

If your crazy altitude assignments were in the mountains, it's because ATC doesn't actually figure out what's in front of you. It sees the airport altitude and wants to get you down to pattern altitude, but doesn't consider the fact that there might be 14 12,000 foot peaks to cross before you get to the pattern. so it descends you, then climbs you when you're approaching terrain, then descends you again, not realizing there's more terrain coming up. It's highly annoying and makes ATC pretty much worthless in the mountains.

 

[Skippermark 3]

Hi all - in addition to changing flights from VFR to IFR because of weather, pilots sometimes do it for other reasons. For instance, in the US & CA, VFR flights are limited to FL195.

My brother is a retired pilot and would sometimes start off flying low and VFR so we could "tour" an area. Then, when we were ready to fly to our destination, he'd switch to IFR so we could fly up high and be more efficient. I didn't ask him how he made the switch, but I don't think it was a big thing. He may have filed a flight plan beforehand so ATC could just bring it up.

As for how to do this in the game, it's not 100% perfect, but I start off as a VFR with no destination set. Once I take off, I contact ATC and request a flight following. I'm able to fly around VFR, maybe having to change frequencies every so often to keep in touch with ATC. Then, when I'm ready to switch to IFR, I go into the MFD/PFD and set my origin & destination airports and add any navaids in between. Then, once I open the ATC menu, the option to choose an IFR flight appears. It sometimes stays forever but sometimes disappears if I switch to another frequency.

If I start off the flight by choosing a destination airport from the world map then try to setup an IFR in-flight, it seems to work okay until I switch frequencies. If I have to change frequencies, the option to go IFR never appears. I'd be curious to see what others are doing to get it to work.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Skippermark

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,799]

There also situations where you can fly VFR but not IFR. 

For example:

https://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2019/10/knowledge-is-power-how-understanding-ifr-can-benefit-a-vfr-pilot/

Quote

There are days when it is safer to fly VFR than IFR. When there are more than isolated thunderstorms, VFR sometimes works better, since the VFR pilot never enters cloud and is able to remain clear of the storms, associated rain, traffic, terrain and airspace restrictions visually. Checking the freezing levels can also significantly improve the chances of flying VFR on days when instrument pilots may stay on the ground. For example, when freezing levels are very low, it can be difficult to find an altitude above the LSALT and acceptable to ATC to cross the Melbourne control area under IFR: but under VFR, there will be other options.

Also bear in mind there are exceptional circumstance where a real world pilot with no IFR ticket may be permitted to fly into an IFR restricted area, for example they are low on fuel and the only available airfields in range have been closed to normal VFR by weather.

[FlyingInACessna 656]

On 10/1/2020 at 11:15 PM, sd_flyer said:

I don't think you can request pop up IFR clearance without planing. But there is way around. Before flight file  IFR (low, high altitudes choice of routes) then after clearance take off and cancel IFR. In this case you can continue to file VFR and retrieve your original IFR flight plan if you needed

You can request instrument approaches though. On my second flight lesson we got a IFR to VFR on top to get out of the marine layer, and then contacted approach to get an ILS back into the airport.

[sd_flyer 6,072]

5 minutes ago, FlyingInACessna said:

You can request instrument approaches though. On my second flight lesson we got a IFR to VFR on top to get out of the marine layer, and then contacted approach to get an ILS back into the airport.

I was referring to MSFS ATC not to real life 🙂

[FlyingInACessna 656]

15 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

I was referring to MSFS ATC not to real life 🙂

Oh hahaha I was gonna say I thought you could 100% request a pop up IFR I mean that’s why it has a name 😉

[Dave_YVR 994]

It happens quite frequently having a vfr encounter ifr conditions and request ifr clearance with out a flight plan on file. First and foremost, issue an ifr clearance when able and then once the aircraft is safe again and if required have them file the ifr flightplan with fss or their flightplan agency.

[Virtual-Chris 682]

3 hours ago, Skippermark said:

Hi all - in addition to changing flights from VFR to IFR because of weather, pilots sometimes do it for other reasons. For instance, in the US & CA, VFR flights are limited to FL195.

My brother is a retired pilot and would sometimes start off flying low and VFR so we could "tour" an area. Then, when we were ready to fly to our destination, he'd switch to IFR so we could fly up high and be more efficient. I didn't ask him how he made the switch, but I don't think it was a big thing. He may have filed a flight plan beforehand so ATC could just bring it up.

As for how to do this in the game, it's not 100% perfect, but I start off as a VFR with no destination set. Once I take off, I contact ATC and request a flight following. I'm able to fly around VFR, maybe having to change frequencies every so often to keep in touch with ATC. Then, when I'm ready to switch to IFR, I go into the MFD/PFD and set my origin & destination airports and add any navaids in between. Then, once I open the ATC menu, the option to choose an IFR flight appears. It sometimes stays forever but sometimes disappears if I switch to another frequency.

If I start off the flight by choosing a destination airport from the world map then try to setup an IFR in-flight, it seems to work okay until I switch frequencies. If I have to change frequencies, the option to go IFR never appears. I'd be curious to see what others are doing to get it to work.

Thanks. I’ll have to give this a try. 

[Dave_YVR 994]

4 hours ago, Skippermark said:

For instance, in the US & CA, VFR flights are limited to FL195.

In the US VFR is allowed up to but not including FL180 (Class A airspace), in Canada VFR is capped at 12,500'ASL or the MEA whichever is higher. They can get controlled VFR above that upto but not including FL180.

[Virtual-Chris 682]

On 10/20/2020 at 7:00 PM, Skippermark said:

Hi all - in addition to changing flights from VFR to IFR because of weather, pilots sometimes do it for other reasons. For instance, in the US & CA, VFR flights are limited to FL195.

My brother is a retired pilot and would sometimes start off flying low and VFR so we could "tour" an area. Then, when we were ready to fly to our destination, he'd switch to IFR so we could fly up high and be more efficient. I didn't ask him how he made the switch, but I don't think it was a big thing. He may have filed a flight plan beforehand so ATC could just bring it up.

As for how to do this in the game, it's not 100% perfect, but I start off as a VFR with no destination set. Once I take off, I contact ATC and request a flight following. I'm able to fly around VFR, maybe having to change frequencies every so often to keep in touch with ATC. Then, when I'm ready to switch to IFR, I go into the MFD/PFD and set my origin & destination airports and add any navaids in between. Then, once I open the ATC menu, the option to choose an IFR flight appears. It sometimes stays forever but sometimes disappears if I switch to another frequency.

If I start off the flight by choosing a destination airport from the world map then try to setup an IFR in-flight, it seems to work okay until I switch frequencies. If I have to change frequencies, the option to go IFR never appears. I'd be curious to see what others are doing to get it to work.

So I tried a number of ways to get a switch from VFR to IFR (pop up IFR), but the only time I got it to switch and then actually load an IFR approach was, as you suggested, to load a flight plan into the system. The problem is, this is a horrendous undertaking with the G1000.  You can’t just enter a “fly direct to” airport... nooo!!!  You have to have at least two points... your desired destination and any Nav point or airport other than that. Then you get a prompt from ATC to go IFR, then you can request an approach, load it up, and follow it in. 

So the challenge now is to figure out a quick way to enter a flight plan in the G1000. I guess I will need to start another thread on that topic to see if anyone has any tips. I had to dial in a Nav point and an airport one character at a time trying to click the knobs with my mouse. I was 20 miles off course by the time I was done. Garmin is the Blackberry of Avionics usability... Horrible. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Virtual-Chris

[Dave_YVR 994]

49 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

armin is the Blackberry of Avionics usability... Horrible. 

Garmin in FS2020 maybe, it's nothing compared to what the real G1000 can do.

[Skippermark 3]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:19 AM, Dave_YVR said:

In the US VFR is allowed up to but not including FL180 (Class A airspace), in Canada VFR is capped at 12,500'ASL or the MEA whichever is higher. They can get controlled VFR above that upto but not including FL180.

Thanks for the clarification on FL180. I saw this very question asked on a flying forum, and a pilot with thousands of hours answered and said FL195, which is why I quoted it. I guess everything you see on the internet isn't true. 😐

As for Canada, this site, which is Canadian flying site, says FL180, so I assumed they were correct.

[Virtual-Chris 682]

Another update on trying to do pop-up IFR in this game...

I tried more flights this evening starting as VFR and switching to IFR. The switch to IFR is easy if you have a simple flight plan, either done before you depart or you enter it in while enroute. I tried setting departure and arrival airport to the same and set a custom waypoint somewhere away from the airport (some landmark for the “sightseeing” trip). That made the request IFR option appear consistently in the ATC options. 

Where I ran into trouble is trying to request an ILS approach. By default, at least for the airport I was using, the ATC gave me a visual approach. I wouldn’t have requested IFR if I wanted a visual approach!  And trying to request an alternate was met with dead air. And of course, at 10 miles from the airport, trying to get an ILS approach at 3000’, they’re telling me to expedite my climb to 9000’. I had choice words for them.

The ATC is just broken in so many ways. I can no longer refer to this as a simulator. It’s a broken game.

LMAO... priceless... 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Virtual-Chris