4 hours ago, Noel said:

Well, I hope they make enough of them so you can actually purchase an FE model again.  I really like the cooling design it just seems crude to not blow heat out of the box.  Are there any other designs that blow heat out of the case do you know?  I would consider those.

Windforce cards do MSI do one.

8 hours ago, Noel said:

Well, I hope they make enough of them so you can actually purchase an FE model again.  I really like the cooling design it just seems crude to not blow heat out of the box.  Are there any other designs that blow heat out of the case do you know?  I would consider those.

 

Well the problem is noise. Blower style cards that vent the majority of the heat outside the case ars usually noisy and don't cool as well.

It may sound like an issue that open shroud designs blow heat into the enclosure but in practice its really not. As long as you have reasonably good airflow through the enclosure (doesn't need to be excessive) its not an issue at all and doesn't excessively raise CPU or VRM temp. I've been using open shroud designs for years with zero issues Noel. And thats with overclocked systems.

The Gigabyte is one such blower style card and Asus are making one too.

https://videocardz.com/newz/asus-launches-geforce-rtx-3090-turbo-with-a-blower-type-cooler

Again though, its not an issue re open shroud designs. Same for CPU rads mounted at front of case blowing in. Doesnt excessively raise other component temps. 

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

Well the problem is noise. Blower style cards that vent the majority of the heat outside the case ars usually noisy and don't cool as well.

Well...not so much according to your first comment:  "Yes. The founders edition ... do cool well though by all accounts and not too bad for noise levels. 50% of the warm air is vented out of the rear and 50% through the side of the cooler into the case."

All else being equal (which you're suggesting it isn't) any hot air being vented out is a good thing no matter how you slice it.  I understand what you're saying though in that for your configurations it hasn't been a significant issue.  Still, I like the concept so will be looking for an FE if they ever release them again!

5 hours ago, Noel said:

Well...not so much according to your first comment:  "Yes. The founders edition ... do cool well though by all accounts and not too bad for noise levels. 50% of the warm air is vented out of the rear and 50% through the side of the cooler into the case."

 

 

You misunderstand Noel, the 30 series founders edition isn't a true blower style. The Gigabyte card and Asus cards mentioned are. Classic blower style coolers attempt to blow as much air out of the case as possible and its those I refer to as being less efficient and nosier.

As you say, with the 30 series one of the fans vents out, the other distributes heat inside the case, It's 50/50. I suppose you could refer to it as a kind of hybrid. I know of no other graphics card cooler designed this way, its pretty unique. 

If its a percentage of the air out of the case and a percentage in you prefer then, other than the new founders edition hybrid design, the open shroud deign is closer to that, as not all the air is distributed within the case, some of it vents out. I'd be guessing, but I'd say 30% vents out.

The EVGA 980ti I'm using now is an open shroud design.  Under load it has quite a bit of warm air venting from the grill at the rear of the card.

In case I'm not clear... 

Classic blower style including the new Gigabyte and Asus 30 series blower cards = 90% air vented out.

30 series Founders Edition = 50% out. 50% in.

Open shroud designs =  70% in 30% out. 

All of the above is my attempt to estimate. Not definitive. 

But again, as I said... open shroud designs have no cooling issues associated with them. The fact they vent a fair percentage of air inside your case is not an issue, You have case fans that vent it.  This design has been used for many years now, it has an excellent track record. This is why pretty much all manufactures use this design almost exclusively. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 20205 yr by martin-w

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

You misunderstand Noel, the 30 series founders edition isn't a true blower style. The Gigabyte card and Asus cards mentioned are. Classic blower style coolers attempt to blow as much air out of the case as possible and its those I refer to as being less efficient and nosier.

As you say, with the 30 series one of the fans vents out, the other distributes heat inside the case, It's 50/50. I suppose you could refer to it as a kind of hybrid. I know of no other graphics card cooler designed this way, its pretty unique. 

If its a percentage of the air out of the case and a percentage in you prefer then, other than the new founders edition hybrid design, the open shroud deign is closer to that, as not all the air is distributed within the case, some of it vents out. I'd be guessing, but I'd say 30% vents out.

The EVGA 980ti I'm using now is an open shroud design.  Under load it has quite a bit of warm air venting from the grill at the rear of the card.

In case I'm not clear... 

Classic blower style including the new Gigabyte and Asus 30 series blower cards = 90% air vented out.

30 series Founders Edition = 50% out. 50% in.

Open shroud designs =  70% in 30% out. 

All of the above is my attempt to estimate. Not definitive. 

But again, as I said... open shroud designs have no cooling issues associated with them. The fact they vent a fair percentage of air inside your case is not an issue, You have case fans that vent it.  This design has been used for many years now, it has an excellent track record. This is why pretty much all manufactures use this design almost exclusively. 

Thanks for the clarification.  And I hear you:  the open shrouds are proven.  I'm all for actively removing heat, and all else being equal a device that actively blows out air substantially warmer than ambient intake will help manage heat even if the effect isn't giant.  But noise is a factor somewhat for me so the 50:50 FE really does sound perfect.   I don't OC my GPUs, and aim for a full 6 year service life with useage in the neighborhood of 30h/week at 4.9Ghz on all cores.  Could do more easily but again I value the cool temps and low wattage in that part of the power efficiency curve.  I mean MSFS core temps in the CPU are between 42C and 52C so I def have ample cooling, and I like it that way.  And for reasons, perhaps very unwarranted dunno, that buying the card that the company that designed it is in charge of overseeing its physical fabrication seems like a good thing as you are skirting a 3rd party per se.  The 'n' is too small to be able to verify this perhaps but maybe not you would have to track failure rates etc.

15 hours ago, Noel said:

 And for reasons, perhaps very unwarranted dunno, that buying the card that the company that designed it is in charge of overseeing its physical fabrication seems like a good thing as you are skirting a 3rd party per se.  

 

Bear in mind though, that some of those third parties, like EVGA for example, have additional components that make the card better. And Companies like EVGA do a better job of support and often have longer warranties. 

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Bear in mind though, that some of those third parties, like EVGA for example, have additional components that make the card better. And Companies like EVGA do a better job of support and often have longer warranties. 

Having used EVGA support would not buy from anyone else. It is stellar.

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Bear in mind though, that some of those third parties, like EVGA for example, have additional components that make the card better. And Companies like EVGA do a better job of support and often have longer warranties. 

 

To add to the above, in case Noel is interested. The Asus 3080 TUF card (open shroud) is 15 degrees cooler than the Founders edition version at the same noise level. Not suprising with three sizable fans. It also has substantially beefed up power delivery and other components. 

 

 

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

To add to the above, in case Noel is interested. The Asus 3080 TUF card (open shroud) is 15 degrees cooler than the Founders edition version at the same noise level. Not suprising with three sizable fans. It also has substantially beefed up power delivery and other components.

How does the problem/failure rate of the  various 3rd party offerings compare do we know?  Right now I'd happily take any of them!  But I like the clean design of the FE model myself.  Now ASUS says their other components are beefed up but do we really have any kind of accurate clue as to what that really means?  Maybe their beefed up components actually fail more often, it happens!

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by Noel

I dont think failure rates are known. All I can say, is that after having EVGA cards for many years now, I've yet to have a single card fail. The only slight issue I had was a ratling cooler, which EVGA replaced quick as a flash.

Most of the top brands like EVGA, Asus etc have 3 year warranties. Zotac have a 5 year warranty. 

We know what "beefed up" means, the components that are higher spec are listed in the video I posted, along with the card teardown. 

You will find plenty of videos where the cards are dismantled and components diferant to the FE version discussed.

Buildzoid  has done countless videos on the design and components used in both motherboards and graphics cards.

The Asus TUF card in the video is from their high reliabity range. Same for their TUF motherboards. Where the emphasis is on higher specified components.

Buildzoid Asus TUF PCB breakdown. Hear you will find out precisely how the cardscare diferent to the lower spec  FE cards.

 

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by martin-w

Thanks Martin.  I've had countless video cards going all the way back to Voodoo and before and have yet to have a single card fail either.  A couple of EVGA cards, a couple of FE, a couple of Radeons and ones I can't recall the names of, etc.   Of course the only way to really validate the claim of beefy is to watch their failure rates over time.  These things don't seem to want to break especially when kept cool and not over-volted.

Towards the latter part the TUF card he says is good for maybe 20Mhz over clock which is beyond complete irrelevance.  I never O/C GPUs, the payoff is just simply not worth it.  Again, what really matters to me, is will the card at stock voltage and decent thermal management go 6 years?  I can safely say, very likely yes if history is any indicator, which it will be.  This guy's expertise in the topic is great, but really I have no purpose for this information it's mostly geared towards people who wish to tweak their hardware physically and/or thru software and I have 110% disinterest--none of it makes a significant difference if gaming/simming is the goal, versus benchmarking.   He actually hints the FE version has it's pluses as well.  In fact he says the FE version has better uncore (?) power delivery.

About the only thing I see especially attractive for this card is its dual BIOS'.  I've never had to flash a GPU BIOS, so that isn't a giant deal either, most likely.

Edited December 7, 20205 yr by Noel

Data Engineer Examines Q4 Scalping in PC and Console Market | Tom's Hardware

On 12/4/2020 at 5:20 PM, martin-w said:

 

Not sure if there's ever going to be a Ti to be honest. The 3090 is pretty much the equivalent of the Titan so maybe not. Its a colossally powerful card the 3090. 

AIDA64 Adds Support For RTX 3080 Ti, RTX 3060, RTX 3050 | Tom's Hardware

More or less confirmed GPU software getting ready.