One seminal moment...

[n4gix 4,961]

14 hours ago, martin-w said:

Molecule made up of 2000 atoms in the same place at the same time...

https://www.livescience.com/2000-atoms-in-two-places-at-once.html

I predict that one day we will be able to communicate instantly at any distance once we understand enough to begin making practical use of these quantum theories!

[martin-w 3,267]

9 hours ago, n4gix said:

I predict that one day we will be able to communicate instantly at any distance once we understand enough to begin making practical use of these quantum theories!

 

You might be right. Current scientific thinking will need to be wrong though. Currently we believe that information can't travel faster than light.

[W2DR 1,862]

Ancient communication stones (as used in the Stargate series) allow for this. Now that we know it's a documented possibility all we need to do is find the stones. Once we have the stones, the current scientific thinking on axiomatic quantum field theory and superluminal communication will no longer matter.

[martin-w 3,267]

That reminds me. Aparently there's a new Star Gate series in development. 

👍

[birdguy 3,958]

I've been thinking about this for the past two days.  Let me get this straight.

I said I gave up on quantum mechanics when the course I was taking said the 'same' object could be in two different places at the same time.

Then someone said that there are millions of billions or an infinite number of universes and that I am in each one of them.  But not exactly the same me.  Some may die before I die.  They wear different clothes than I do.  I might sit down to read a book and the other me will go for a walk.  We are composed of different atoms.

So someone said it's not 'same' it's 'like'.

Well, I can wrap my head around that.  It's not really ME in those other universes it's someone LIKE me.

But of course.  And we don't have to go to other universes to find someone LIKE me.  I'll bet there are someones like me on this very planet.  

Even though I am 2 1/2 years older than my brother we were often taken for twins.  Just three years ago I was visiting him in California and we were having dinner at an Outback.  Our waitress asked us if we were twins.  That doesn't take quantum mechanics.

Do I have this right?

Noel

[martin-w 3,267]

49 minutes ago, birdguy said:

 

So someone said it's not 'same' it's 'like'.

Well, I can wrap my head around that.  It's not really ME in those other universes it's someone LIKE me.

But of course.  And we don't have to go to other universes to find someone LIKE me.  I'll bet there are someones like me on this very planet.  

 

Noel

 

 

It depends on the type of multiverse theory we're referring to.

In Many Worlds, Its closer than someone like you in our universe. If you imagine an exact duplicate of you in every way shape or form, down to the intricacies of the DNA, literally everything. Exactly identical to you. That duplicate you exists in a completely separate universe. That duplicate you and its separate universe was created by a change that occurred in our universe. That duplicate you will from that point on lead its own life, in its own universe, and be subjected to, like all of us, a multitude of  random events. So at that point the duplicate you's life story diverges and differences accrue. Its like the branches of a tree. 

If we're instead referring to Eternal Inflation and its pocket universe's, then its different. If inflation is correct, and we do have reasonable evidence it is, then inflation wouldn't have stopped all together. Instead we know that inflation would have stopped in some regions and continued in others. So you end up with a myriad of pocket universes. Now, there may be, in such a huge number of pocket universes, universes that are completely different to ours, similar to ours, almost identical to ours, and if the number of pocket universes is infinite, then there most certainly would be a pocket universe that's identical to ours with its own Noel, identical to you. 

Then we have the copy of Noel that would exist if our universe is simply infinite. Because atoms can only arrange themselves in a finite amount of ways, simply an infinite universe would create exact copies of you. 

There are multiple dimensions possible too. In addition to our three special dimensions and one of time, there may be tiny curled up dimensions, so small we cant detect them. There are 11 dimensions in M-Theory. 

M-Theory postulates that there's a higher dimensions space, call it hyperspace if you like. Within that hyperspace there are an almost infinite number of universes, like bubbles floating in higher dimensional space. They are called branes. There could be alternate Noel's there too.

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by martin-w

[birdguy 3,958]

Then we would have the mothers and fathers too I assume since we have the same DNA.  In fact everyone who has ever lived would have a duplicate in every universe.  While our lives might not be parallel I assume our births would be and then each would take off on it's own from there?

Noel

[philmurfin 74]

3 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Then we would have the mothers and fathers too I assume since we have the same DNA.  In fact everyone who has ever lived would have a duplicate in every universe.  While our lives might not be parallel I assume our births would be and then each would take off on it's own from there?

Noel

But this is assuming that these parallel universes have a suitable place for humanoids to reside.

Otherwise could Noel be a Noel with 6 legs and 2 heads and still be regarded as like you?

[martin-w 3,267]

16 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Then we would have the mothers and fathers too I assume since we have the same DNA.  In fact everyone who has ever lived would have a duplicate in every universe.  While our lives might not be parallel I assume our births would be and then each would take off on it's own from there?

Noel

 

Again, it depends on which multiple universe type we are referring to. In MWI, all "you's" would have the same parents. The branching starts after conception. It can't start before because you don't exist before conception. Imagine the branching of a tree. 

In an infinite universe, or the many pocket universes of eternal inflation however, there would be copies of you and your parents. Those copies would exist purely by chance, because atoms can only arrange themselves in a finite number of ways. They wouldn't have been generated by your actions or the events that caused your universe to split. 

 

Disclaimer: I'm not a physicist. Thus, there will be stuff I say that's wrong. 😁

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by martin-w

[birdguy 3,958]

Phil, that begs the question are the parallel universes identical?  Do they same star clusters, galaxies, and planets?

I assume that if my counterpart exists in a parallel universe then the planet earth also exists in that universe and in all the other universes.

If we all have counterparts in these universes than shouldn't all the galaxies and suns and planets also have identical counterparts in those universes?

Noel

[birdguy 3,958]

Martin, the fact that we can discuss these things, even if they might be wrong, is the beauty of this forum.

I can be a part of this conversation or publish one of my bird pictures or boyhood stories to be viewed by and participated in by people all over the world.  We are friends in a global community and if you are wrong that's OK.  You are provoking thought.  At least in my case you are.

Noel

[martin-w 3,267]

25 minutes ago, philmurfin said:

But this is assuming that these parallel universes have a suitable place for humanoids to reside.

Otherwise could Noel be a Noel with 6 legs and 2 heads and still be regarded as like you?

 

Again, this depends on the type of multiverse we refer to. In Many Worlds Interpretation, at the point of branching, the two Noel's would be identical. Differences accrue from that point on. A choice made causes the  universe to branch. We start with Noels in our universe, Noel makes a decision to scratch his nose, at that pint the universe splits and we end up with a second universe where Noel didn't scratch his nose. The two universes them evolve separately. Every single possibility that can occur, does occur, but in a separate universe. Every choice that has multiple outcomes generates a universe for each outcome. 

In terms of eternal inflation, or an infinite single universe... there will be those identical to us, slightly different, very different and everything in between. And yes, in terms of pocket universe's, some of them would be hospitable for life and some wouldn't, because in some of those pocket universes, the universal constants would be different. Some of them would harbour no life at all. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,267]

16 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Phil, that begs the question are the parallel universes identical?  Do they same star clusters, galaxies, and planets?

I assume that if my counterpart exists in a parallel universe then the planet earth also exists in that universe and in all the other universes.

If we all have counterparts in these universes than shouldn't all the galaxies and suns and planets also have identical counterparts in those universes?

Noel

 

Yes. The creation of new universes doesn't just apply to Noel. It applies to everything in the universe. In MWI, there is no wavefunction collapse, this implies that all outcomes of quantum measurements are realised in separate universes. There is just one wavefunction for the entire universe.

In addition, generally speaking, wavefunction is merely a mathematical tool. It doesn't tell us anything about the true nature of reality. But in MWI, the wavefunction is regarded as objectively real.

Who knows what the truth is. At this juncture, we just don't know for sure. 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by martin-w

[n4gix 4,961]

11 hours ago, martin-w said:

You might be right. Current scientific thinking will need to be wrong though. Currently we believe that information can't travel faster than light.

Assuming we have found a way to "modulate" one of the paired particles, the other half of the pair would simultaneously "vibrate" and the signal could then be detected and amplified.

Such devices however would only exist in pairs however as a single channel "radio." 

[martin-w 3,267]

8 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Assuming we have found a way to "modulate" one of the paired particles, the other half of the pair would simultaneously "vibrate" and the signal could then be detected and amplified.

Such devices however would only exist in pairs however as a single channel "radio." 

 

"paired particle"

Well you couldn't do that with the multiverse theories we've been debating, because there is no connection between the two particles. They exist in separate universes. Causally disconnected. 

You mean quantum entanglement? Nope, currently we don't believe quantum entanglement can be used to transit information. Information doesn't travel between quantum entangled particles. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chadorzel/2016/05/04/the-real-reasons-quantum-entanglement-doesnt-allow-faster-than-light-communication/?sh=683954043a1e

 

Quote

One of the most fundamental rules of physics, undisputed since Einstein first laid it out in 1905, is that no information-carrying signal of any type can travel through the Universe faster than the speed of light. Particles, either massive or massless, are required for transmitting information from one location to another, and those particles are mandated to travel either below (for massive) or at (for massless) the speed of light, as governed by the rules of relativity.

Since the development of quantum mechanics, however, many have sought to leverage the power of quantum entanglement to subvert this rule, devising clever schemes to attempt to transmit information to "cheat" relativity and communicate faster-than-light after all. Although it's an admirable attempt to work around the rules of our Universe, faster-than-light communication is still an impossibility. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/01/02/no-we-still-cant-use-quantum-entanglement-to-communicate-faster-than-light/?sh=6e3ae65c4d5d