Part of the issue might be reproducibility, hence are we sure all these are "set in stone" recurring issues or are they conditional depending on X,Y,Z which may trigger it. That's why it's so hard to follow all this stuff, even if we memorize what issues are where, they might not always occur in every circumstance. 

In the scenery developer files, we can program in and rewrite the approaches to prevent those circular loops (I think), but I haven't gotten that deep into it yet, it didn't look too hard. I do have a loop in the approach at my airport, but I haven't read all the charts, so all this is just I'll do my best kind of thing.

Edited May 1, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery

2 hours ago, ryanbatcund said:

Well technically you descend at the FAF but then you are using LNAV minimums and not LPV.

Sorry forgot about your 3rd question Ryan...Well I think that deciding which minimums you'd use in real world flying would depend upon 2 things...you need the glideslope indicator showing and you need to see either the LNAV+V or the LPV indication on the gps. Other than the glideslope carrot itself I'm not certain that I've ever noticed the LNAV or LPV indicators working at all in fact. I might be wrong but is the gps we have in msfs even capable of displaying this?

As far as I'm concerned using msfs2020 for any sort of practice which you need to be closely matching  real world processes, is just not happening, still...9 months after release. So then we have a choice, either make concessions and pretend you have a WAAS enabled aircraft (even if we dont) and ride the g/s all the way down to the runway since it will allow you to do so....or fly the approach to LNAV minimums instead of LPV and stick with those real world restrictions. Kinda sucks for the hard core flyers, but at least there's a choice to do it both ways...I'd rather have it this way for now than no Rnav g/s at all 🙂

 

Edited May 1, 20215 yr by hangar

7 minutes ago, hangar said:

...I'd rather have it this way for now than no Rnav g/s at all 🙂

 

Yeah - I mean the sim is visually, very very nice.  I think with WT on the scene these avionics and flight plan issues will be fixed.  But you're right...MSFS is definitely no substitute for a good ole RXP GTN 750/GNS530W in XP11 or P3D/FSX.  The WT CJ4 comes closest so far.  It can do most of the things I would practice irl (except that I'm not flying a CJ haha - instead a GTN650 or GNS430W).

As far as I can recall, unless any of my mods are affecting the default KingAir's GPS (sorry I don't keep track of what GPS model is what, so I'm confused here)... There are some fully "working" GPS and indicators in some of the default planes. Some of the bugs are sometimes less apparent if you choose ILS-Low Level Navigation in the menu ahead of time and select both Approach in the dropdown (maybe, but I cannot confirm as there are too many conditions here).

 I am pretty sure there are ALT-V, ALT-S bugs as well in the default GPS. If ALT-V is showing on the default GPS, it often doesn't capture the Glideslope, sometimes it takes control and dives at the ground (ugh). Sometimes with ALT-V selected it is using the ALT-S, and sometimes with pitch enabled it is diving at the ground even though it shows pitch 0.1.

I think there are just too many combo bugs to figure this all out.

Edited May 1, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery

20 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

 

I think there are just too many combo bugs to figure this all out.

Yes there are some major quirks.  I've found for instance on the G3000 (WT mod) that if I first use NAV to capture the localizer, and then press APR, that it will follow the GS.  If I just press APR when cleared by ATC (online atc not in sim) it sometimes will NOT capture the GS...and just remain level grrrr.

It would be nice to just do what I do irl and have it work.  This is how XP11 works with default GPS units and also with RXP GNS/GTN units.

Right, and it's even more maddening for me because I don't know what the H* I'm doing in the first place. I've been simming for years, but I never had a real-life reference to compare to. Oh I actually took (1) yr of ground school 30 years ago, but it was basic ground school and it was heavy on weather maps and airspace crud and hardly even mentioned any of this stuff. Only went up in a plane once before I left. I think i forgot 90% of it anyhow. 

 

Edited May 1, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery

OK, so I just did a test RNAV approach with the default KingAir.

The first try, I missed the GP (in this case I assume Glide Path is indicated because it's RNAV), and it dived into the ground and I crashed.

2nd Attempt

I was in ALT-S mode at a 500fpm climb below the glide-slope. It also showed the GS/GP indicator correctly all the way to the runway.

The screen automatically changed from ALT-S to GP and ALT-S disappeared. The plane then went into a descent automatically, the descent was definitely triggered by the auto-pilot.

However, I find it unlikely it was a correct 3 degree glide slope given that I was descending at -1300 FPM. It did however, automatically enter into this descent and claim I was locked, the GP/GS indicator (the arrow) was vertically centered while I was descending at -1300 FPM. Maybe I was just going that fast, but I don't think so, I can try again I suppose.

I ended up relatively in the correct place despite all this. Though again I question the real glide slope as it appeared to fly too low over the fence line, also at my airport there is a 50' tall obstacle which the GP should have easily cleared, it cleared it somewhat but I think it was illegally close (not sure).

 

Edited May 1, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery

If you want to try a full RNAV, maybe try the modded DA-62. For the default KingAir, it sort of works but kicks in late. That said, there may be a weird combination you can find to gain a more distance vertical path, but it's definitely a bug fight at times.

With the Default KingAir

To make sure it was working as I think it was, I went into slew mode and changed my altitude and speed while the GP was indicated and the GS arrow was centered. It properly corrected the G/S each time landing at virtually the exact same place (the very edge of the runway), so the RNAV is working for me AFIK (most of the time) at the airport that I am using it at, but not in the sense that it will work miles out like I guess it should.

I never hit the approach button, it was fully automated once it switched to GP, but the problem is I never had a VPATH or a longer GP routed in, it only switched to GP a couple miles before the runway.

I did not direct the descent at all, as a matter of fact I tried to mess it up. The key appears to be capturing the GP, what worked at least that time was being in a 300 to 500 FPM in VS+ mode coming in about 3 miles from the airport. I think it captured the GP at about 2.5 miles away. I am not sure if the FULL LPV-VGP / RNAV will work, but I think in the Modded DA-62 I have done a full vertical slope from like 5+ miles out where it properly landed an RNAV, but it also is hit or miss (but more proper).

As far as I can tell, there is nothing "major" wrong with RNAV beyond the buggy auto-pilot itself messing up, but given that I'm not a pilot, I cannot say for sure how it should work in RL.

However, without a VPATH, VGP, or an LPV (which I think is possible in the modded DA-62)...
it seems like all it really did was go into an auto-approach without me hitting the approach, so I guess I would have to confirm a longer VPATH than just a short auto-appr kicking in. I cannot recall if V-Path/VGP/LPV are even ever indicated on the default KingAir (dont think so), I know they are on the modded DA-62.

I also would guess that in a real RNAV-VGP/LPV landing there should not even be a Glideslope hot capture point, as long as you are at an acceptable angle? 

I don't know how that works because it's been a long-time since I've even tried it in Xplane (do not recall). It seems like Asobo has the G/S-ILS and GP-RNAV functionality mixed up slightly maybe.

Edited May 1, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery