Rnav approach help

[blista89 14]

@Bobsk8 Can you give an example of an airport you've flown to? I can give it a go and see if I have any success. 

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

Nope, only time I have seen that is on an ILS. 

OK, in the Arrow with the GNS530,  start up at any airport, select an RNAV approach and activate it, and you will get an active GS indicator.  If you are on the ground, the GS will be at the top.  As you take off, it will move down and settle at the bottom for the entire flight. IF you manage your altitude, heading for the FAF, you will find that the GS will actually guide you down from the FAF to the runway. That is what some on this forum call a "functioning RNAV vertical guidance"..

If you should find this does not appear at your chosen airport, try my home airport of CYCD and select an RNAV approach to CYCD R16.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Bert Pieke

[Bobsk8 12,731]

2 hours ago, blista89 said:

@Bobsk8 Can you give an example of an airport you've flown to? I can give it a go and see if I have any success. 

I do about 5 flights a day to different airports with different approaches. Hard to recall. 

[hangar 661]

1 hour ago, Bert Pieke said:

That is what some on this forum call a "functioning RNAV vertical guidance"

...and there are some who behave like over-grown babies who, instead of offering the help that is being asked for, only think about their own ego's.

It was already pointed out that it's not working to real world "spec" and needs to be fixed.

But that's no reason to mislead people into thinking that there is no vertical guidance for Rnav approaches and then to belittle those of us who attempt to clarify the situation for those that wish to understand it better and actually start using it.

Get over it and move on already, geez.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

7 minutes ago, hangar said:

But that's no reason to mislead people into thinking that there is no vertical guidance for Rnav approaches and then to belittle those of us who attempt to clarify the situation for those that wish to understand it better and actually start using it.

I think we have exhausted this topic... You believe it deserves to be used with workarounds, that is fine.

I think it is broken, and deserves to be ignored until it gets fixed.  

Lets agree to disagree.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Bert Pieke

[hangar 661]

If we ignored from using everything which was broken in this sim then not many would still be here using it (MSFS2020).

But yea,  I've had enough as well.

Edited April 30, 2021 by hangar

[bean_sprout 1,201]

RNAV works at the MP version of KSHR.  Sheridan WY

Cheers

bs

[blista89 14]

@bean_sprout that's interesting. I just tried flying in to the default version of KSHR using RNAV to runway 15 and the altitude was pegged at 4780ft until flying over the final waypoint at JIVOX when it descended on the glideslope. In the default airports it appears to be using whatever the final altitude is programmed to be (in most cases the FAF, but sometimes there is another waypoint afterwards), but are you suggesting that in your marketplace version it works correctly all the way from 7000ft at RAMVE? 

[bean_sprout 1,201]

39 minutes ago, blista89 said:

@bean_sprout that's interesting. I just tried flying in to the default version of KSHR using RNAV to runway 15 and the altitude was pegged at 4780ft until flying over the final waypoint at JIVOX when it descended on the glideslope. In the default airports it appears to be using whatever the final altitude is programmed to be (in most cases the FAF, but sometimes there is another waypoint afterwards), but are you suggesting that in your marketplace version it works correctly all the way from 7000ft at RAMVE? 

 Will need to verify.

bs ☘️

[Mace 1,927]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:31 AM, Bobsk8 said:

The RNAV  in MSFS doesn't have vertical capability. So you use RNAV  for lateral guidance only, and the CDI will show you the lateral path. You can use autopilot to track the approach. . I use EFB for the vertical profile, but if you don't have that, you need to look at the chart for the approach and make sure you are at the right altitude as you fly the approach. Here is an approach I just flew. The bottom right  of the chart shows you  the vertical profile. https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/2104/pdf/09155R20.PDF

 

That is what EFB shows me in real time as I fly the approach, on it's moving map. 

Bob in your pdf chart you linked...is there any software out there that will show your aircraft on the VERTICAL guidance part of the approach plate?   I have Navigraph and have used its ability to link on charts, but I've never found anything that will show your airplane on the vertical profile part.

[Phantoms 800]

On 4/29/2021 at 11:31 AM, Bobsk8 said:

The RNAV  in MSFS doesn't have vertical capability.

Actually it does, but just during during AP APR (even when the aircraft is not suppose to have it). It also depends on the airport sometimes. With the GNS530 mod you have to activate the Approach yourself. This just puts you on the assigned approach to get you to the IAF. After that and once at the IAF you can then activate the APR button on the autopilot and it will capture the glidescope (usually at or near the FAF) and fly you right down to the runway. This depends on whether MSFS setup the RNAV glidescope for that runway and if they got it right or not (if they have you to high to capture it, etc.). When it all clicks it will provide vertical control right down the glidescope whether the plane has the capability or not.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Phantoms

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Good explanation Phantoms, trying to take it in. This has been very frustrating as a non-pilot I have not been sure if it's something I'm doing wrong, a specific airport, the lack of SIDS coding in, my approach path, or what. Sometimes I feel like the GS lock on the APPR is even lying, it seems like MSFS compared to other sims puts you too low ahead of the runway on the glideslope. Almost like the completion of the slope is at the wrong lat/long. That said, sometimes in some planes I come in at the right altitude, it seems to really mess up in hilly areas (but maybe that is somewhat realistic - don't know).

I have even found that at an airport I am developing, I prefer the ILS to be too far up the runway, but if I place it there then the ILS lights are an eye-sore and end up in an unrealistic position crowding the runway, so I have no choice but to move it back. Then when I do and I test my airport, some planes are coming in too low on the ILS (not always but sometimes). The CJ4 is a great piece of work, but I must say the version I have needs adjustments as well on the APPR too often, unless you get the path lined up miles back it can mess it up.

 

[ryanbatc 12,857]

13 hours ago, hangar said:

😁

 

me too

Are you guys using the PMS 530 mod or default?  Because I have also seen issues where I get no glide path information on my HSI/NAV1 when using the modded GNS530 during an RNAV approach with LPV minimums.  Even if I can get the glide path, the routing the sim takes you to the IAF is screwed up...it's usually a huge arc from your present position to the IF or IAF.

I don't have the JF Arrow but I grabbed a pic on the net and edited it to show what should happen assuming everything is working.  If the CDI is set to GPS (the thing circled in red), the horizontal needle should start above where it currently is and as you approach the FAF, it should drop down and center (if you're on glide path)...and it would drop down if you're too high.

One more important point.  I believe that in some cases the MSFS autopilot will descend you during an RNAV(GPS) approach with lpv minimums but you will not get a glide path on your instruments.  So if you use no AP you cannot determine when to descend.  Well technically you descend at the FAF but then you are using LNAV minimums and not LPV....  essentially like flying a Localizer approach.

rnav by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Edited May 1, 2021 by ryanbatcund

[Bobsk8 12,731]

3 hours ago, Mace said:

Bob in your pdf chart you linked...is there any software out there that will show your aircraft on the VERTICAL guidance part of the approach plate?   I have Navigraph and have used its ability to link on charts, but I've never found anything that will show your airplane on the vertical profile part.

I have used Avliasoft EFB 2 for a couple of years. It shows your aircraft while flying an RNAV approach, flying down the vertical profile, real time. I can continuously see if I am either high, low, or right on the glideslope. I don't fly without EFB at all. 

[hangar 661]

1 hour ago, ryanbatcund said:

Are you guys using the PMS 530 mod or default?  Because I have also seen issues where I get no glide path information on my HSI/NAV1 when using the modded GNS530 during an RNAV approach with LPV minimums.  Even if I can get the glide path, the routing the sim takes you to the IAF is screwed up...it's usually a huge arc from your present position to the IF or IAF.

Yes Ryan I'm using the mod and I have found the same as you regarding the HSI and missing glidepath...but I have it on the Nav1/Obs in the Arrow as you pointed out so I use that. I also get that crazy arc you mentioned so I go into the flightplan page and tell the gps to go direct either the FAF or IAF depending on the approach to avoid that annoyance for now. I say for now like it should be fixed any time now, but truth is that it's been broken since day 1....well at least the f/d works now without needing the a/p turned on 🙂

1 hour ago, ryanbatcund said:

If the CDI is set to GPS (the thing circled in red), the horizontal needle should start above where it currently is and as you approach the FAF, it should drop down and center (if you're on glide path)...and it would drop down if you're too high.

The intercepting altitude for the WAAS approaches are wrong...from what I've seen they are mostly set at the FAF waypoint alt restriction on the approach chart so this means that the g/s needle will not start from the top since the intercept is at the FAF... so the needle will be beneath you, and as you get closer to the proper FAF altitude the needle will come up to its center point and begin to drop down and guide you once you pass the FAF. If you are in other planes that have a flight director you can enable app mode and you can manually ride the flight director down to touchdown if you like. Dunno if the a/p works for this as I never use it for landings.

Edited May 1, 2021 by hangar