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Beach Baron 58 performance at high altitude (or lack thereof)

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Hi all. I'm graduating from the Cessna to the Baron. I took a flight over the English Channel last night. I had my altitude set in the flight plan to 15,000 feet. Well, I could barely get over 13,000 feet. ATC was belly-aching for me to expedite to 15K...I had to ask to stay at 13K feet.The Baron's ceiling is 20,000 feet. I've gone back in this forum, and there are a lot of posts about how to get the Baron to climb to its ceiling (or at least into the high teens). There is all kinds of advice on mixture, prop RPM, carb heat (no carbs on a Baron--its fuel injected), and step climbing. The one thing I haven't seen put to bed is icing.The air temp was -2 C. Weather was set to building storms. I had leaned the mixture. Prop RPM was set to about 2300 (per the specs in the Complex Aircraft Checkout lesson). Cowl flaps were open. Engine temp was OK. Throttle was at max, and manifold was about 11 in at 13,000 feet (that seems a little low...like maybe the intake is getting constricted by ice???). Climbing to this altitude, I was at around 80 KIAS. Leveling out at this altitude, I was at about 120 KIAS. I was not looking at EGT (exhaust gas temp)...I should have. I have 6-7 saves of the flight..I'll go back and look at the EGT.I saw one post in all that I read of someone who "turned on the deicing and everything was fine". In the Baron panel, there is prop deicing and boot--I think--what is boot deicing? I turned these on with no effect. I also turned on the fuel pumps to high...no effect (what do these do?). Does anyone have any insight on 1) how to tell if icing is occuring, 2) if its affecting performance, 3) how to combat it. Or is there something else I'm missing?

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If your mixtures are leaned properly, and your props are set right, that would also be the last thing I could come up with-icing. Prop deicers are a system with several components (an energy source, heating element mounted on the spinner and blades, and controls to turn them "on" or "off." Basically the way I understand it when you engage deicing some of the electrcity from the aircraft gets sent through the prop hub therough special wiring, the energey is converted to heat. Most systems have timers that heat the elements for 20 to 30 seconds, with a whole cycle of about 2 minutes. "Boot" refers to wing deicing. Also you may want to make sure your pitot heat is on-I haven't flown the FS Baron in awhile, so Im not sure if it's on both panels but there should be a "pitot heat" toggle swithch down by the light switches somewhere (In the real Baron, there's left and right pitot heat, and if I remember right, fule vent and windshield heat, too).Fuel pumps are only used before starting the engine. Once fuel pressure is equal and/or the engine is running depending on the model, you would turn that (those) off. As far as telling if your icing in flight sim, sorry, I don't know. In real life, I know it's not a good thing though :)

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I had exactly the same problem yesterday with the FSX Baron 58. I was flying from AYNZ (PNG) to YBCS (Australia), which took me over some pretty high mountain ranges in PNG, and I had to milk her up to 15500 to clear the highest peak I came across. The aircraft was barely climbing (100 FPM) by the end whilst trying to maintain best climb speed of 105kts. Cowl flaps, mixture, prop and anti-icing were all checked and double checked for correct settings to no avail. Fuel was pretty high at this stage of the flight, but even later when fuel was down to 30%, it had the same allergy to higher altitudes. Me thinks there is a bug in the flight model, because there ain't no way way this puppy would ever get up to 20000ft in its current performance state!Gary

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Do a search on a prior post on this same subject.The Baron does the best at 6-8000 ft. I have had it as high as 12,500 only once and it was a dog there-I was only getting a 100 ft. climb with everything full in.Remember density altitude also.I'd repost the tables and a shot of what my panel showed at this altitude (they were in the prior post) but I am out of town right now with a questionable internet connection....however what you report would be fairly typical.By the way-you should never be below blue line!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Geoffrey's gonna be the authority here since he flies a B55 in real life. The B58 does have more power... also more weight if fully loaded. I do find the FSX Baron to be a litte more anemic at high altitudes than it's FS9 counterpart. Proper technique does help but climbing above a pressure altitude above 18,500 seems pretty impossible. Once the airspeed has decayed to below Vy you're behind the power curve and there's no reserve power left so you're pretty much done. I did fly this morning KSEE to KSDL and was able to maintain 115 KIAS to Imperial VOR where I was passing through 15,500 with a climb rate of about 200 fpm at that point. The ensuing climb to 16,500 saw a rate closer to 100 fpm and the next 2,000 feet took me all the way to Gila Bend to get there and at that point the aircraft couldn't maintain Vy in level flight so as they say... that's all folks.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/166112.jpg

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Below is the "read me" from the Freeware FS9 Turbo Baron. I wonder if it could be imported to FSX?Daryll"A friendly Hello to everyone! ZiggyFsims proudly presents its very first stand-alone Aircraft.Although this is just a repaint of original MSFS BeechBaron it goes as a complete new aircraft because a lot has been modified. It starts with a new paintscheme, based on a real BeechBaron, with a higher level of detail (little chrome parts, turbo slots as seen on original 56/58 turbos, signs and logos, dxtBmps, dynymic/reflective textures with alpha channel, outside views on engines, a very realistic high performance CFG-File and finally a special created, powerful but smooth running brand new turbo normalized sound set. Hellowear Aerosport livery & Teledyne IO550 Turbo normalized sound by: Siggi Schaeffer/ZiggyFsims************************************************************************************************************************** FS2004 Beech Baron 58TC-Turbo normalized version: This is a simple rework of the default Baron58. Modified are the aircraft.cfg file, here for the turbo normalized version Io550N with better performance (310hp) and of course a little bit higher fuel consumption... all based on real-world, Turbo Baron specs. The manifold pressure gauges have been modified for turbo-charging. The elevator effectiveness has been modified to what "we all" feel is a more realistic level. It will show up as a completely separate plane (Baron_58TC). Leaving all default Barons in place. Basic Aircraft.cfg modifications by: Brett Henderson Thanks Brett! ****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************INSTALLATION:Unzip the B58TC.zip file into a temporary folder. Look it over.... make sure it's intact and then move the main beech_baron_58tc folder into your aircraft folder. The modified gauge is already in the panel folder so it will not alter your default gauges at all!****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************As the aircraft.cfg is a rework of a default aircraft you all already own, Brett makes no claim or warranty whatsoever. Use, modify and distribute this as you see fit.The livery design and the Teledyne Turbosound is copyright by Siegfried Schaeffer, it is freeware with limited distribution. It is not allowed to use it for any commercial purpose, nor is it allowed to upload it on any payware site or to use it in any payware. HelloWear tradmarks included are copyrighted and shall not be used in any other fashion without permission of their respective owners.Credits:Brett Henderson cmnsns12@hotmail.com (Aircraft.cfg) S.Schaeffer ziggyfsims@yahoo.com (T-Sound & HelloWear Repaint)Have fun and get the thrill out of it!"

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I think it all comes down to MS and their stretchy specs with FS again. I mean, the FSX Baron is as likely to get to its max rated alt of 20K as a PC with the baseline spec 256M RAM would even run FSX in the first place! :-hah I am just joking BTW ;-)Gary

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The FDE programming for FSX is different compared to FS9 (much more than the differences of FS8 to FS9) and in addition the visual model for the Baron is all new for FSX so the contact points, weight locations, lighting locations, etc. are probably also different. I find the FDE for the FSX Baron to actually be quite good in many aspects. If you are wanting better altitude capability I might suggest just trying to emulate Merlyn Product's STC for turbo-normalizing which would entail changing the aircraft.cfg for the FSX Baron with the following: (changes in bold text)[piston_engine]power_scalar = 1.0 //Piston power scalarcylinder_displacement= 91.7 //Cubic inches per cylindercompression_ratio= 8.0 //Compression rationumber_of_cylinders= 6 //Number of cylindersmax_rated_rpm= 2700.0 //Max rated RPMmax_rated_hp= 300.0 //Max rated HPfuel_metering_type= 0 //0=Fuel Injected, 1=Gravity Carburetor, 2=Aerobatic Carburetorcooling_type= 0 //0=Cooling type Air, 1=Cooling type Liquidnormalized_starter_torque= 0.3 //Starter torque factorturbocharged= 1 //Is it turbocharged? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUEmax_design_mp= 30.0 //Max design manifold pressure, (inHg)min_design_mp= 1.0 //Min design manifold pressure, (inHg)critical_altitude= 18000.0 //Altitude to which the turbocharger will provide max design manifold pressure (feet)emergency_boost_type= 0 //0=None, 1=Water Injection, 2=Methanol/Water injection, 3=War Emergency Poweremergency_boost_mp_offset= 0.0 //Additional manifold pressure supplied by emergency boostemergency_boost_gain_offset= 0.0 //Multiplier on manifold pressure due to emergency boostfuel_air_auto_mixture= 0 //Automixture available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUEauto_ignition= 0 //Auto-Ignition available? 0=FALSE, 1=TRUEmax_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on maximum RPM mechanical efficiencyidle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on idle RPM mechanical efficiencymax_rpm_friction_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on maximum RPM frictionidle_rpm_friction_scalar= 1.0 //Scalar on idle RPM friction

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>Do a search on a prior post on this same subject.>The Baron does the best at 6-8000 ft. I have had it as high as>12,500 only once and it was a dog there-I was only getting a>100 ft. climb with everything full in.>Remember density altitude also.>I'd repost the tables and a shot of what my panel showed at>this altitude (they were in the prior post) but I am out of>town right now with a questionable internet>connection....however what you report would be fairly>typical.>By the way-you should never be below blue line!Thats what I was thinking.. I never considered the baronto be a high flyer. I don't even believe it's pressurized,but I'm not sure. Like you, I'm always below 10k in thatplane. "sim" Heck, in general, I like to run it as low as Ican, cuz it's faster.. 80 knots on a climb is too dang slowfor a baron. After takeoff, I dump the nose down a bit, and buildup some speed, and then go to climbing. Usually at no morethan 700 fps. If I want to fly high, I take the mooney. It's made for thattype flight..And gets faster as you climb, the reverse of the baron. It's also pressurized as far as the real deal I think.MK

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In real life the Baron and the Mooney are not pressurized. You have to use oxygen masks at high altitudes.

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Hi Jack,I had similar problems with the Maule on a "mountain mission". IMHO it's a bug with the mixture. I'd try to enable the "automixture" feature in the realism settings.I know that's not what you want, but it would be a start...Regards,J

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According to the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (see Chapter 9), the service ceiling is "the altitude at which the airplane is unable to climb at a rate greater than 100 feet per minute." The aircraft's absolute altitude is the highest altitude it can reach (conditions are specified in the rules governing aircraft certification).http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/I've attached a screen capture of the stock BE58 in FSX climbing through 17,000. The aircraft's performance actually matches of that of the real airplane pretty well.Note, however, that a normally-aspirated, piston-powered airplane is generally going to be most efficient between about 6000 and 8000 feet. Climbing well into the teens usually doesn't pay off.

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You are right about the performance-6-8k gives the most efficient speed/fuel combo in the Baron/Bonanza and that is where I always try to plan my flights- terrain/weather permitting.Go above 12,500 more than 30 minutes you will need oxygen-(how many have that?) and performance usually is worse-and you and your passengers are likely to get tired over 8000 and less than 12500 anyway. One must also take into account density altitude (the altitude the airplane thinks it is at dependent on barometer/humidity)- and that magic service ceiling and performance that is found in the manual with a test pilot flying a brand new airplane with brand new engines can be considerably lower....http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Good suggestion.However, the turbo Baron was the 58TC not the 58.Turboed and cruise specs for 20k.The reason the standard Baron won't meet specs to 18k is GMAX.Does not accurately simulate piston powered engine performance above 7 or 8k.ALL piston powered aircraft and not just Baron.If you have specs, test for TO performance.Seconds or feet to flight.Adjust power and prop scalar to meet.Test then for published max speed at altitude in specs.Use parasite drag to meet these specs.Rem: Critical alt is the altitiude at which an aircraft falls below 100 fpm climb. (My assessment)By manufacturer and at very low fuel and load. Like 150 lb pilot and no other weight and minimum fuel.

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>Does not accurately simulate piston powered engine performance>above 7 or 8k.>ALL piston powered aircraft and not just Baron.>I generally find that most simulated piston (non-turboed) aircraft DO seem to perform rather normally in the 8,000-12,500' msl range. My simulated and real flight activity usually starts at airports ranging from 4500' to 7200'. I keep the mixture leaned, and feel that the simulated ones do a reasonable job, as I'm usually always at 9,000 to 11,500' with them. I have run sims, where the aircraft are underpowered no matter what, but don't have the problem with FS2002, FS2004, or FSX.

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Here is a performance chart for the B55. Notice they don't even go above 16000 ft-(probably too embarassing). Also-notice the performance differences depending on whether a standard day or not.The best TAS is at 6000 ft-above 10k it goes down quite a bit.The bottom shot shows me cruising along at 12000 ft.-to my recollection it was about 80 degrees on the ground. The performance charts show 19.7 inches and Cas of about 143-pretty much on.I have never been much above that and frankly wouldn't want to-the performance-especially climb was dismal -it was hard to get much climb at 12,000-100-200fpm is my recollection. However for jumping over a mountain pass (like the Tetons in this shot)-one might want to visit that level briefly and legally.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/166219.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/166220.jpg

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>Good suggestion.>However, the turbo Baron was the 58TC not the 58.>Turboed and cruise specs for 20k.>>The reason the standard Baron won't meet specs to 18k is>GMAX.>Does not accurately simulate piston powered engine performance>above 7 or 8k.>ALL piston powered aircraft and not just Baron.>>If you have specs, test for TO performance.>Seconds or feet to flight.>Adjust power and prop scalar to meet.>Test then for published max speed at altitude in specs.>Use parasite drag to meet these specs.>>Rem: Critical alt is the altitiude at which an aircraft falls>below 100 fpm climb. (My assessment)>By manufacturer and at very low fuel and load. Like 150 lb>pilot and no other weight and minimum fuel.>>My suggestion was not meant to emulate the Beechcraft Baron B58TC which uses different engines and has a higher gross weight. I thought it was clear in my post it is meant to emulate a legal STC which adds turbonormalizing to normally aspirated Baron B58's.GMax is a 3d modeling tool and has nothing to do with the Flight Dynamics Envelope.Critical altitude is the altitude at which a turbocharger no longer can produce maximum boost, the lower the ambient pressure (so the higher you climb) after this altitude the less maximum boost available. So in other words after climbing past the critical altitude a turbocharged engine will start to behave like a normally aspirated and less power is available the higher you go.

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>The reason the standard Baron won't meet specs to 18k is>GMAX.>Does not accurately simulate piston powered engine performance>above 7 or 8k.>ALL piston powered aircraft and not just Baron.Excuse me? GMAX has absolutely nothing to do with the flight model or performance. The only thing GMAX does is create the 3d model's mesh! ;)

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Heres a link to Baron 58 performance:http://portfolio.finelight.com/NBAA_beechc...PDF/58_2001.pdfFor a quick test I set FS to read TAS, climbed to 6k and cruised at max power in A/P, heading hold, 6k alt hold, 5,200lbs.Well below the 6k specs of 202kts TAS.Several iterations of Power Scalar and Prop Thrust Scalar.Adjust weight to 5,200 lbs each run.1.075 both Power and Thrust Scalar resulted in 200kts TAS read on the A/S indicator.Climbed to 8k and speed was 200kts.Didn't do the 10k. Should be 190 kts TAS.What did you find your test?

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Thanks for all the input. I haven't had time to get back in the "cockpit". I will soon and I'll report back.

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