I would not buy anything from shockwave because they refuse to give you any discount for upgrading or purchasing the redesigned product . Every company gives a small discount if they redesigned it from the ground up to keep their customers coming back. Eaglesoft gave a discount and other companies are doing the same thing. The B-17 for FS9 did not have the WOW factor but I bought it and it was ok. I was willing to try the B-17 again for FSX if I would have gotten a discount but if Shockwave wants to do business that way forget it I will spend my money else where. I think all of you should think about that too. Deal with companies that are fair to you like flight1, aerosoft, FSD international and others. If you think Shockwave and other companies should give a discount let your voice be heard and email them and let them know or post here good and bad companies that all of know where and where not to purchase from.http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7433Dave

Fine, they do not conform to your self-obsessed ideals of the `correct` business model. But you wrote that on a computer equipped with a MS operating system, which you didn't get a discount on as a previous user, on a computer which I would guess you didn't get a discount on because you bought from the same source in the past, and I'm guessing you probably don't just do voluntary work, but get paid for the job you do? And just how much cashback did you get on FSX for being a FS9 customer?When do you plan on stopping being a hypocrite?In the meantime, they make their commercial decision, and you make yours based on them. It's called `business` and its the way the world works, for better or worse. But don't bother sharing it with the rest of us as some kind of `right` you feel you are missing. You aren't Mother Teresa. Allcott

Shockwave has some good "reduced" pricing on some new models to start with. The new FSX/FS9 Spitfire is a good example.It's every company's right, to set their pricing structures as they wish. Since a "customer" rarely knows the inside story as to design, programming, etc; it's not the customers place to set the price schedules. As you're not forced to buy this product, then by all means don't.L.Adamson

I am sorry you feel this way but you are falling into the trap of thinking this is a simple re-release of the old ** B-17. The new B-17 is an FSX specific aircraft that took a lot of man hours to build. This new B-17 features new MDL's both inside and out with new higher resolution textures. It also takes complete advantage of the FSX bump maps, specular maps and other features.In short it is not an upgrade as you mistakingly assume.

Yes, lots of mistaken assumptions. Discount is not a right. Choice to purchase is. Our OP gets this the wrong way round and tries to make out its the developers fault. Allcott

But you wrote that on a computerequipped with a MS operating system, which you didn't get adiscount on as a previous user, on a computer which I wouldguess you didn't get a discount on because you bought fromthe same source in the past,I agree with everything you are saying, but this example is a bad analogy, as MS does offer upgrade pricing on their O/S's.

>But you wrote that on a computer>equipped with a MS operating system, which you didn't get a>discount on as a previous user, on a computer which I would>guess you didn't get a discount on because you bought from>the same source in the past,>>I agree with everything you are saying, but this example is a>bad analogy, as MS does offer upgrade pricing on their O/S's.What MS do is massively overcharge on everything (as decided by the European Courts, not me) and then discount so that the consumer feels they have obtained a better deal, when in fact they have only been overcharged by 300%, not 500. Then they spend some of that bloated profit getting their professional spin doctors to make us believe they offer `upgrade pricing`. Have you seen the price of Microsoft Office? Or Vista? And why is FSX 20 quid more than other complex gaming product? I just paid

Your wrong guys I bought a HP cpmputer and I did get a discount when I bought another. Secondly you do get a upgrade price when you upgrade from MS when you upgrade your operating system. No developers has to give a discount when they by a upgraded product but I do not have to buy from them either. The faster the buying public figures out to stop being sheep and taking all the excuses the developers give you not to give you a discount the longer they will do business like they are. How fast would Shockwave give previous owners discounts if they got hunders of email stating they refuse to buy unless they get a discount when they upgrade. This is my final word on this...you can be a sheep or a good consumer and get your money worth.

> How fast would Shockwave give previous owners discounts if>they got hunders of email stating they refuse to buy unless>they get a discount when they upgrade. This is my final word>on this...you can be a sheep or a good consumer and get your>money worth.Sounds like you're looking for a flock of "sheep" yourself. Say a hundred or so... :-( L.Adamson

And you miss the point of the reply from Shockwave. It's a new product, not an upgrade. And you're going about this all the wrong way: Bring a hundred customers to Shockwave and I would be willing to bet they'd GIVE you a copy of the B-17. :) Trying to put others off because you don't understand the first thing about commerce is a fools errand.Allcott

Man, a lot has changed since my days on Compuserve back in 95.Seems the entitlement mentality has grown pretty strong in the FS community since then. Shame.

It's been so long ago that I'd almost forgotten the Compuserve group. Things have, indeed, changed since then. And not necessarily always for the better. I wish of the oldsters like Trev Morson or Chuck Dome would check in here. But I understand why they don't.Doug

I own both now and like both of them.. The FSX B17 is well worth its price! I don't regret paying for such a masterfully done aircraft and with Shockwaves track record on quality I don't mind spending the extra bucks.

I worked very closely with Shockwave on this product. This is not an upgrade. Do not fool yourself. This is a ground up build of a B-17.If you don't want to pay $28 for it, then don't. These guys have to put food on their plate however.

You are entitled to your opinion and you have stated it. Now this thread is locked.