Ok I have to admit to being totally confused as to when to turn on approach mode during an ILS landing with the DC6. I have watched a few YT videos now and there seem to be various methods. Some people wait until the glide slope needle starts to move before they engage it and others turn it on before they vector onto their final approach coarse. I have had intermittent success with both methods. Sometime it will work and sometimes it will totally fail.

Is there a "proper" way to do it?...or should it even make any difference? What are other people doing? Sorry if its a noob question but I'd really like to get consistent results with this. Thanks.

The best is to hand fly it.

Enter GS from below. Follow the approach plate. Navigraph is great for this.

Learn to fly IFR in a simpler aircraft first. Like a 172.

Don't ever use an auto pilot to do something you can't  do manually or you can't recover or even recognize when something is not right.

Once you can fly approaches by hand perfectly then it is time to learn how the AP works.

When I use the AP in the DC6, I vector myself and assign altitudes according to the plate. Then once established with localizer centered and needle on the GS starts to move down you can engage approach mode and hand fly once below 1000' AGL . But it is really better to take over sooner than later so you get the feel of the plane, you still have to land the plane. Be ready to go around at once if things don't stay centered or runway environment is not in sight at DH.

The real-world answer is to select approach mode when cleared for the approach.  If you and/ or the vectoring controller are doing you jobs correctly, you will capture the loc first and then join the glide from below.

I know of no commercial operator who has a differing standard, on any airframe. Approach mode is armed when cleared for the approach, on either a hand-flown or coupled approach. 

Edited November 27, 20214 yr by Stearmandriver

Thanks for the replies. I guess real world flying and flying in the sim are 2 different beasts. I actually don't have a problem landing the plane visually (with all assists off in the sim) so that's not an issue tbh. My question is more sim related and how to get the plane to capture the glide

slope consistently. I set up a flight plan the other day which I had flown before and set the weather so I had virtually zero visibility. I had used approach mode before (in clear skies) on this route because i wanted to test it out so I know it works. This time however it just failed to engage

at all and I'm not sure why. Anyway...I guess I'll just keep tinkering until I find a routine that works consistently. Thanks

2 hours ago, 177B said:

When I use the AP in the DC6, I vector myself and assign altitudes according to the plate. Then once established with localizer centered and needle on the GS starts to move down you can engage approach mode and hand fly once below 1000' AGL . But it is really better to take over sooner than later so you get the feel of the plane, you still have to land the plane. Be ready to go around at once if things don't stay centered or runway environment is not in sight at DH.

Thanks for this. So you wait for the GS slope needle to move before enabling the approach? That's how I thought it was supposed to be done. I think I'm getting confused from watching too many YT videos lol. Thanks for the advice.

I make sure on my on the Localizer, with the needle centered, and I am below the glide slope and then I switch the Gyro Pilot to LOC. When GS intercepts, it will start descending. At around 1,000 FT I disengage the AP, and hand fly the rest of the approach. 

1 hour ago, Stearmandriver said:

The real-world answer is to select approach mode when cleared for the approach.  If you and/ or the vectoring controller are doing you jobs correctly, you will capture the loc first and then join the glide from below.

I know of no commercial operator who has a differing standard, on any airframe. Approach mode is armed when cleared for the approach, on either a hand-flown or coupled approach. 

Can't argue with that. I'd just add that you need to have Positive identification of the LOC, and it's indicating proper sensing.

 

With the DC6, as with most airplanes, you want to make sure the LOC is captured first. It's nice to have the LOC and GS capture at the same time, but for all intents and purposes, make sure you're established on the LOC first.

Here's a step by step in getting the DC6 to fly an ILS on autopilot:

1) Have the Autopilot on, and in GyroPilot Mode.

2) Once the LOC is alive, turn the knob to Localizer (you can skip this if you're comfortable and just go straight to approach once the LOC is alive)

3. Once the G/S is alive, turn the knob to Approach

 

Why wait until the loc or glideslope are alive?  I've not tried the DC-6, but I've never seen a plane that requires that. 

I've seen lots of simmers advocate that - wait to arm nav until the loc is alive, and then wait to arm approach until the localizer is captured.  I don't know if there's something specific about the DC-6 that recommends it, but in general, there's nothing to be accomplished by waiting.  When you're on an intercept heading and cleared, arming approach accomplishes all the same things. The flight guidance / autopilot will capture the localizer when it centers,and capture the glideslope when it centers.  All that waiting accomplishes is giving you an opportunity to forget ;).

Edited November 27, 20214 yr by Stearmandriver

IF you can't positively identify that the LOC is tuned (with Morse code identifier, which for some reason you can't in this version of the DC6) you have the potential to track some other navaid. When the LOC is indicating the proper deflection, then sure, go ahead and arm approach. In all the planes i've flown with round dials and an autopilot, I always wait to arm the approach until I get a positive ID and proper course deflection. Especially when using a GPS equipped aircraft. If you don't go through the proper steps, and select VLOC on the garmin, It'll track the course for you with no problems, but you won't get any vertical guidance lol. I've also had it when ATC says maintain X heading until established. If you arm the approach too far out, sometimes the plane will bank hard left or right to head towards the selected course. That's happened on more than one occasion which prompted me to just hand fly the approach.

To each their own, but I like arming approach when I know what the autopilot will do for sure. The last thing I want on an approach at night, with icing, to minimums is have to second guess anything.

Edited November 27, 20214 yr by V1ROTA7E

There will basically never be a time when you're cleared for an approach and haven't already ID'd the localizer.  If you are flying a full procedure with a course reversal, there's never a time you won't have a solid signal before joining - otherwise, you couldn't accept the procedure in the first place.  If you're vectored onto a 30 mile final down low, sure the loc can be unstable and you'll want to handfly or use LNAV if you have it.  But when would that ever happen in the sim, and why would it preclude placing the flight guidance in approach mode? 

Same if there is traffic crossing your runway near the loc or glideslope antenna - sometimes you'll need to handfly, which is why critical areas are protected during an autoland.

None of those preclude arming the approach mode when cleared for an approach though - you may choose to handfly for a variety of reasons, but the flight guidance is still coupled to the same data you're following - the localizer and glideslope.  You can just smooth things out by not following every transient indication. 

From a human factors perspective, the less messing about with flight guidance modes, the better.  Especially if you're single pilot with no PM to back you up - as we always are in the sim ;).

I'm not talking about every approach, I'm talking about the DC6 and flight sim in general. At work, yes, we *generally* arm approach when we're cleared, though there are instances when we wouldn't. I've had it where we were doing an autoland, and ATC kept taxiing planes though the critical area which was extremely annoying and caused us to not do the autoland and hand fly instead. It's a dynamic profession, but at the end of the day you've gotta get on the ground. I understand your "set it and forget it" approach setup, but I like to be with everything critical during the flight. This was the same thing I did when flying single pilot IFR. If this were a modern jet, I'd agree with you. But it's not. If you get into the habit of setting things and forgetting them, especially in this plane, it'll bite you!

5 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Why wait until the loc or glideslope are alive?  I've not tried the DC-6, but I've never seen a plane that requires that. 

I've seen lots of simmers advocate that - wait to arm nav until the loc is alive, and then wait to arm approach until the localizer is captured.  I don't know if there's something specific about the DC-6 that recommends it, but in general, there's nothing to be accomplished by waiting.  When you're on an intercept heading and cleared, arming approach accomplishes all the same things. The flight guidance / autopilot will capture the localizer when it centers,and capture the glideslope when it centers.  All that waiting accomplishes is giving you an opportunity to forget ;).

If you arm approach before you have the glideslope alive at a sensible altitude you run the risk of the aircraft wrongly locking on to a node which is also transmitted above the glideslope, similarly to making sure you are in a sensible position before arming the localiser.

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/160/what-is-the-behavior-of-false-glideslope-signals

gives this in a clearer way than I can.

Edited November 27, 20214 yr by harrry

Well that's why you ensure you're in a sensible position before accepting an approach.  If you've either been vectored or placed yourself above the slope, you're breaking off the approach for another try unless you're visual. 

Waiting until the glideslope is alive to arm approach would do nothing to mitigate the above situation.

I'm not talking about "setting and forgetting" anything; I'm talking about setting it so you DON'T forget it ;).

I only have about 100+ ILS approaches in the DC6 which is pretty much all I fly. I never have a problem intercepting the GS. As I posted above, I wait until the aircraft is centered on the LOC , and tracking it and I am below the GS, and that is when I switch the Gyropilot to APP. That works every time, without fail. 

Edited November 27, 20214 yr by Bobsk8