AirlandFS?

[lupedelupe 320]

The difference between the built-in flight dynamics of the H145 and the AirlandFS profile is quite large. If you stay under 80-odd KIAS then the AirlandFS profile is pretty good (Realism = 100%, sensitivities = 0%, spring relax off). Something weird happens at around 85 knots and again a little past 105-or-so knots. The skid indicator and what happens outside seems to be disconnected: achieve balanced flight at 100+ KIAS and the heli yaws itself way off course. 

And the H145 AirlandFS is one of the better profiles out there.

The H125/AS350 profiles (have tried them all) are just bizarre. Somewhere, someone said stay off the AT pedals above 80 knots. Okay, so when I roll to turn it just carries on more or less straight. Flight model under 80 is not terrible. Go above that and it becomes a lottery. I'm clearly doing something very wrong here; hoping someone with experience with AirlandFS can't provide some input. 👍🤞

[Stoopy 1,623]

I agree with you that there are odd things afoot with AirLandFS particularly with some of the newer profiles for helis like the H125 and H145.  It's as if there are different internal procedures and code for just two separate flight regimes, slow flight and cruise, and the program shows strange artifacts in the flight model when transitioning from one to the other.  Take the H125 (I want to keep calling it an AS350 myself) when you are descending from level flight and slowing up.  Like the transition from slow flight to cruise you mention where you have to take your feet off the pedals at just the right time,  there is a similar moment when you have to abruptly start putting in anti-torque input with your feet to kept it on track, and if you time it wrong you're skidding or slipping a long in a weird bank.  

There are other helis using AirLandFS that dont have this behavior, like the R44 Blue profile (even the Black is better behaved although sensitive) or the Mi-2.  Perhaps they are dumbed down although the Black profile seems to be intentionally challenging.

The fact that the latest versions of the AS350 profile are like this, even after Fred of AirLandFS rolled up his sleeves with RotorSimPilot and the two worked away refining and testing, seems to indicate there are base issues with internal implementation of AirLandFS and the program itself may need more refinement as opposed to the profiles.  Granted that heli flight dynamics must be insanely complicated to implement, and I'd question if it's even possible to achieve high accuracy, but then I take the Bell 47 for a spin and although it may not be balls-on accurate depending on what real heli pilot you are talking to, it is certainly consistent and smooth in its behavior characteristics in most any corner of the flight envelope you care to explore. 

I think its just going to take more time but there are certainly glimmers of hope.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Stoopy

[lupedelupe 320]

The Bell 47 is indeed good: you are always flying with your feet, as you should with an older helicopter. 

Was the previous iteration of Fred's flight model software for FSX (can't remember what it was called) this bad with transitional dynamics? 

[jcomm 6,049]

I will rather wait for ASOBO's in-house implementation of rotary flight dynamics.

In any sim I prefer built-in rather than "run-outside" fligth dynamics, and although I don't like MFS's FD at present, I did watch their latest twitch and really liked to see what Sebastien showed and talked about for the upcoming Sim updates.

Let's hope for the best...

I did use the FlyInside Bell 47. Looks cool, but I don't like the feel, although I can't talk based on any sort of rw experience flying such a type... I believe I will only revisit helicopters in MFS when ASOBO releases their new heli-ready update to the FM.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by jcomm

[jeansy 344]

1 hour ago, lupedelupe said:

The Bell 47 is indeed good: you are always flying with your feet, as you should with an older helicopter. 

Was the previous iteration of Fred's flight model software for FSX (can't remember what it was called) this bad with transitional dynamics? 

HTR was the fsx addon from fred, it did a lot more for helos, im not a fan of the msfs version, as the above post says im waiting on the game engine to support helos, right now like a lot of addons the code is too rigid and un flexible, being limited to 3rd party external engines running adds too many break points in the chain

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

Are you sure that the H145 profile is the most well developed?

Because reading from their discord a lot of people kept asking them to work on it and they said that they will eventually work on it, but so far it seems that they are focusing more on the "default" flight dynamics. Which also explains why things are a bit different on the R-44, the most polished chopper AirlandFS profile wise (imho).- The H125 is also new and work in progress in that regard.

[dogmanbird 269]

I also experience what Loopdelupe and Stoopy find. The strange sudden rigid movements that occur during flight are apparently too extreme. I too have been wondering for sometime if Airlands and HPG might not be able to improve on their profiles due to their methods used to obtain and send physics to & from msfs. Assuming the heli pilots who've given feedback on discord etc are genuine, slowing down and moving out of translational lift, the sudden influence of the stabilsers is also something pointed out as not realistic the way it presently is.

Do you guys find the h125 with profile v4 is as close to DCS Huey and Bell 145  as we've seen so far in MSFS (still a bit to go), although it too has some occasional sudden rigid movements? Taog44's first release of the Huey for MSFS is a pretty decent first attempt too imho.

Edited February 1, 2022 by dogmanbird

[Mace 1,966]

On 1/31/2022 at 8:55 AM, lupedelupe said:

And the H145 AirlandFS is one of the better profiles out there.

I agree with Pastaiolo, I think the R44 AirlandFS profile is currently better than the H145 profile.  Or lets just say this, I find the R44 more satisfying to fly than the H145.  I'm not really a big fan of trainer-type helos BUT in the case of the R44 I make an exception, I find its flight modelling very enjoyable.

[mikegrr 109]

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought the H145 had it's own internal  flight model, just as the H135 does. I don't own it but I have used the 135 and I believe it doesn't use airlandfs.

Are there different profiles out there?

Just as a fun trick, can you use any profile with any helicopter? That is not he one assigned to that plane.

[lupedelupe 320]

1 hour ago, mikegrr said:

Excuse my ignorance, but I thought the H145 had it's own internal  flight model, just as the H135 does. I don't own it but I have used the 135 and I believe it doesn't use airlandfs.

Are there different profiles out there?

Just as a fun trick, can you use any profile with any helicopter? That is not he one assigned to that plane.

You are right: the H145 does have its own internal flight model. However an AirlandFS profile is available for it which will override the internal logic. And it's very good ... if you keep your speed low. 

There are different AFS profiles out there, in some instances several available for each type (the H125 has Blue – easy – and a Black – less so – profiles). You can use any profile with any helicopter (won't be remotely realistic ... then again, it isn't particularly realistic at the moment either). Come to think of it, you can probably use any AFS profile on any fixed-wing aircraft as well. 

I'll try to hover the B787 later today. 😅

 

[Saineve 1]

On 2/1/2022 at 5:57 PM, cagarini said:

I will rather wait for ASOBO's in-house implementation of rotary flight dynamics. uno online

In any sim I prefer built-in rather than "run-outside" fligth dynamics, and although I don't like MFS's FD at present, I did watch their latest twitch and really liked to see what Sebastien showed and talked about for the upcoming Sim updates.

Let's hope for the best...

I did use the FlyInside Bell 47. Looks cool, but I don't like the feel, although I can't talk based on any sort of rw experience flying such a type... I believe I will only revisit helicopters in MFS when ASOBO releases their new heli-ready update to the FM.

 

As you say this project isn’t bleeding resources or time, why should flyers more than happy to use AirLandFS be penalized waiting for the Native version when it’s not even necessary?

[jcomm 6,049]

2 hours ago, Saineve said:

As you say this project isn’t bleeding resources or time, why should flyers more than happy to use AirLandFS be penalized waiting for the Native version when it’s not even necessary?

It happens that my oppinion has changed since my last post, so, really no problem...

I had the Flyinside Bell 47 and am now in the fence between their 206 or the Cowan one 😕

Maybe I'll end up buying the F7F just released for XP12 🙂  - in a vertical climb it looks much like an Osprey 🙂