14 hours ago, dave2013 said:

And yet you keep pushing them, and pushing them, and pushing them, over, and over, and over.

I don't get it.

Dave

 

I'm a sample size of one. That vast majority aren't in my situation.  I couldn't have an ICE car either. Electric or ICE, no different. Nowhere to park and cant afford any car. 300 quid my daughter pays per month for secure parking 15 minute walk away.  I certainty haven't got a spare 300 quid per month. Re electric, somehow, I don't think the authorities would allow me to trail a mega sized extension cable 15 minutes away across pavements roads etc. ⚡😁 

As I say, I haven't even a road to park in, but for those that do in the UK, no drive, have to park on road, the authorities are looking at solutions like charging points incorporated in lamp posts or a receptacle at the curb. The only issue I have with that is that in the UK there are people that steal the cables. Apparently you can make 80 quid per cable from the copper. 

 

Quote

 

By integrating charge points into lamp posts, ubitricity supports cities, authorities and municipalities in the rapid expansion of public charging infrastructure. 

In the UK, ubitricity already operates more than 5,000 charging points, making it the provider of the largest public charging network in the country. 

https://www.ubitricity.com

 

 

My situation is pretty rare. But the vast majority of people aren't in my situation and for most people an EV is all they need. And if they need to do a mega long road trip once per year... hire a gas car.

As for "pushing" the word you were looking for was "countering" countering claims that aren't true.

If you read replies you will notice where I have pointed out the aspects of electric vehicles that aren't optimal yet.

It's actually easy to "get" .

And I could say you keep criticising and criticising and criticising them. You do it in every EV thread. You also ignore things people say.  I suspect its simply that you have a tendency to resist change and favour the old rather than the new. We are all biased of course, sometimes unconsciously. 

Edited March 31, 20224 yr by martin-w

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

 

Wow, that's A LOT of charge stations.

Cheers, Rob.

 

Check this out for entire UK. Surprised even me. 

https://www.zap-map.com/live/

Its the BYD Blade battery that's getting attention at the moment. Cobalt free, lots of outstanding qualities and a life of 1.2 million kilometres!!!

Safety level is generating a lot of interest, even with nail penetration it does well. Ultra safe. Its rumoured that Tesla are interested in acquiring them. 

Edited March 31, 20224 yr by martin-w

Sorry Martin.  I misunderstood.  I was talking about distances between towns and service and I assumed you were replying in the same vein.

Noel

5 hours ago, martin-w said:

I suspect its simply that you have a tendency to resist change and favour the old rather than the new. We are all biased of course, sometimes unconsciously. 

You and Rob love to play psychoanalysts and ascribe behaviors and rationale to people who you don't really know.  There is no unconscious or conscious bias on my part.  I don't wish to purchase an EV at this time, just like many millions of other people.  If I lived in a large city with a vast charging network and I had only short trips, I'd probably buy one.

The fact is that l actually embrace change.  I'm not one of those old fuddy-duddies who complain about new technology and long for the good old days.  I got into computers back in the early 80s when very few teenagers were into them.  I'm a sci-fi fan and have been all my life.  I worked in the science and technology fields for 25 years as an electronics technician and science support specialist.  For my work I've written computer code in Visual Basic, C, Javascript, Linux shell scripts, and HTML.  Even did some programming in BASIC back in the 80s as a hobby. There, now you know a little more about me.  I *love* technology.

I like EVs and believe that they are the future.  I've stated this multiple times.  It seems that you just choose to focus on the things I say that you don't like to hear and harp on those.  Whenever I say something that you don't like, you say that I'm "biased", that I "resist change", that I "ignore facts", that I "deny" this or that, etc. etc.  However, if you actually read a lot of my posts on the subject of EVs and other related things, it would be clear to you that I am actually quite reasonable and even willing to modify my views as I learn new information.  That said, I'm not a zealous or fervent believer in anything, really.  I always retain a healthy skepticism about anything I hear or read.  I am critical of almost everything.  I question almost everything.

EVs are great, but they are not on par with ICE vehicles when it comes to convenience and cost - yet.  You may think that they are but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.  However, if they are so fantastic, then why isn't everyone buying them?  Yes, sales are increasing, but not at a pace you'd expect to see if EVs were truly just the most awesome thing since sliced bread.  It's obvious to me why people aren't rushing out to buy them - convenience and cost compared with ICE vehicles.

Example: there are no charging stations within 30 miles of where I live, and I don't live out in the boonies.  There's just no demand for them in this area yet because there are very few EVs, but maybe there are very few EVs because there are no charging stations.  This is why I advocate govt. subsidies for the charging network.  Once it gets built, they will come, as they say.

What I do know, is that in the very near future EVs will beat ICE vehicles in every metric, and the masses will see that and start buying them in the millions.  This will result in less pollution, and less consumption of fossil fuels, which is a good thing.

Dave

53 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Sorry Martin.  I misunderstood.  I was talking about distances between towns and service and I assumed you were replying in the same vein.

Noel

 

No probs, I probably misunderstood you too. 

Edited March 31, 20224 yr by martin-w

23 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

There is no unconscious or conscious bias on my part. 

 

That surprised me given that every time you appear in an EV thread you  emphasis the negatives. Many of which have been covered before and we are aware of.

 

26 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I'm not one of those old fuddy-duddies who complain about new technology and long for the good old days. 

 

Great stuff! Glad to hear it. 

 

27 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

It seems that you just choose to focus on the things I say that you don't like to hear and harp on those. 

 

Nope, the things you say that are wrong or exaggerated. 

 

28 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

EVs are great, but they are not on par with ICE vehicles when it comes to convenience and cost - yet. 

 

For convenience they are on a par for most people. See the statistics that tell us that most people do short trips and charge at home. The data is there. And this is an example of what I mean, how you exaggerate the negatives. How you exaggerate the perceived range and charging issue despite the fact that the data tells us most people do short trips most of the time and charge at home. I've posted several links to that effect. This is why I perceive bias. 

As for cost, yes I agree. Although there are some great EV options now at a reasonable price. The new Nissan Leaf for example is very good value. Price has dropped by 5000 dollars and range has gone way up. 

 

Quote

Yes, sales are increasing, but not at a pace you'd expect to see if EVs were truly just the most awesome thing since sliced bread.  It's obvious to me why people aren't rushing out to buy them - convenience and cost compared with ICE vehicles.

 

Perceived convenience and cost issues you mean. There a huge list of EV myths. To me, sales of EV's are increasing above and beyond what I would expect. It was a record year for EV sales in the UK in 2021, despite the impact of the pandemic. More battery electric cars were sold than the previous 5 years combined. That's stunning! 19% of all new cars could be plugged in. 

 

Quote

According to the latest vehicle stats, the EV market is booming. Electric passenger car sales increased by 186% in 2020 and today there are an estimated 400,000 electric cars (EVs) on the road in the UK and more than 750,000 plug-in hybrids (PHEVs).

 

There’s been a massive increase in the number of electric vehicles on sale in the UK with more than 40% of models now available as plug-ins. Carmakers like Nissan, Tesla, Ford and Vauxhall have all expanded their model line ups to include affordable plug-in models. Premium carmaker Volkswagen has gone one step further and created the electric-only ID. range while Mercedes-Benz has created its innovative Mercedes-EQ models. See our guides for the best electric cars or the cheapest electric cars.

 

https://heycar.co.uk/blog/electric-cars-statistics-and-projections

 

43 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Example: there are no charging stations within 30 miles of where I live, and I don't live out in the boonies. 

 

Charging stations are patchy in the US so I understand. Per capita we have more in the UK and Europe. Take a look at the map I linked to earlier today. The country is peppered with them. Ask someone elsewhere in the US and they would have a different opinion.  But of course, as said, most charge at home. As for the uS, same applies, and I dont see a once a year mega long trip as an issue when an ICE car can be hired. A much cheaper option given how cheap electric cars are to run.

 

46 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

What I do know, is that in the very near future EVs will beat ICE vehicles in every metric, and the masses will see that and start buying them in the millions.  This will result in less pollution, and less consumption of fossil fuels, which is a good thing.

 

No choice in the UK. New petrol and diesel cars will be banned in 2030. 

17 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Oil spill list and its devastation and cost:

You're stating the obvious.  Nobody wants to see oil spills and related accidents.

I'll repeat myself for your benefit: I don't just drive short distances.  I take a lot of longer trips.  I tow an RV.  Even if I didn't have my RV, I don't want a little subcompact SUV EV, and I can't afford a Tesla.

Yes, I'm a spoiled American who likes big vehicles.  I know that I'll have to change eventually, though, as the trend will be towards smaller EVs because the powers that be will do everything they can to make fossil fuels as expensive as possible, which makes sense if you know what their goal is.

What really bites, though, is that while you and I and all the the other unwashed masses are forced to drive little EVs and use mass transit, the power elite will continue to fly around in private jets, cruise around in big limos, and live in palatial mansions, consuming many times what the ordinary person does.  Yeah, I know, life just ain't fair and never will be.

Dave

8 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Nope, the things you say that are wrong or exaggerated. 

Not everything you say is right, either.

You do not have a monopoly on the truth or the facts about everything.

That's the last thing I'll say on this matter.

Dave

1 minute ago, dave2013 said:

Not everything you say is right, either.

 

Like what? You have me beaten for falsehoods. 

 

4 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

I'll repeat myself for your benefit: I don't just drive short distances.  I take a lot of longer trips.  I tow an RV. 

 

Don't buy one then. The conversion isn't about about you. The conversation is about suitability of EV's for most people. There will always be outliers that have different needs.

So how many trips over 300 miles do you do each year? Be honest. Too many times to hire an ICE car for your long trips? That would surprise me given how much money can be saved by running an EV.

 

OK, another one bites the dust for the "usual" reasons!  PM each other if you wish to continue your back-and-forths!