I had UT installed in FS 9 and I spent days, no, weeks getting it to a level where it was reflecting reality (something I expect from scratch from a simulation btw)Now with FSX the same problem arises. All programs out there (which are: UT, MyTraffic, Traffic 2005 as far as I know) have their flaws when it comes to one of the following points:* ease of installation* accuracy* appearanceWhat I'd like to see is a product with accurate flightplans, correct liveries and accurate aircraft models. I want to install it and use it.So I could use the time for flying instead of copy/paste cfg files.Any ideas why it is so difficult to make a "perfect" AI-traffic Product?And last but not least: which product comes closest to my demands?Martin

If you want realistic schedules - that leave only Ultimate Traffic and building your own AI.Why is it so difficult to make perfect package? Time and money.A model like EvolveAI or AIA or such is a few hundred hours per model. The commercial packages cannot afford to pay for that much labor for that many models. The same with repaints. When an AI package needs a couple thousand repaints of quality....Such a package would cost several hundred dollars by the time it was through.Provided the information for the repaints exists - there are quite a few airlines/ aircraft in the world where it is almost impossible to find.Personally I view the commercial packages as usable out of the box for the group who wants something close but are not worried about details. They accept the 'lack of quality' rather than invest the time in configuration because they want to fly.Others use the packages as a base, supplementing them with freeware packages, individual repaints, etc.A real issue, which you know if you've worked with UT, is that the FS world and the real world differ enough to make a perfect product impossible. Too many missing airports and too little data in the world aviation databases.That's where My Traffic excels - they work with the FS world.Another real issue is FS was never designed for 250 landings and takeoffs per hour at airports like KATL, EGLL, EHAM.The good news is that much of your UT based setup will move pretty easily to FSX. I don't know what the soon to be released FSX update and schedules will take to get UT going.Flightplans/ Traffic files will need to be updated with FSX airports where there have been changed designators. There is an automated tool for that task.Aircraft need to be updated with exits for jetways and baggage carts - but a warning - people are finding that when all the jetways on an airport start moving when it comes into view at 10nm - there is a severe performance hit that last a couple minutes.

I have been more than satisfied with PAI, Evolve, WorldofAI and building my own AI when necessary (it's fun and accessible and free).

Reggie -- is there any talk amongst AI developers about how to address the performance hit associated with jetway operations (i.e, limiting the amount of gates with working jetways in 3rd party scenery, or consciously omitting the exit data on some AI aircraft)?

>And last but not least: which product comes closest to my>demands?>Custom AI bgl files like I make for myself.Unfortunately, since I am using other people's flight plans, I would need to obtain permission from the original flight plan authors to upload my files.>Any ideas why it is so difficult to make a "perfect">AI-traffic Product?>It takes a long time and a lot of work to "do it right". For UPS, I had a hard time finding good data on plans and scheduling. Same for Fedex. And even then, if data is simply not available, you are to some extent "guessing". I bet a lot of commercial products "guess", too.A lot of research is involved. But, it's fun to learn about the airlines.You can "half-***" it, and you will have decent AI, but if you are like me, that is not acceptable. I want real schedules, and when I go to DFW, I want to see lots AAL aircraft, and not Aeroflot.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

when I go to DFW, I want to see lots AAL aircraft, and not Aeroflot.Aeroflot I could accept - just not Southwest!!!I think the key to ultimate AI happiness is to pick a time and stay in it.Whether it's the propliner era like Tom Gibson's work, the early jet liners or the 80's or whatever.Chasing today's schedules, the latest repaints, the airline which opened this week, deleting the airline which closed last week...It extremely satisifying, but a lot of work.I'll admit - I still have the BAW World Tails flying in my main AI, and the ANZ LOTR paints.I also have Pan Am 1970's schedule and Eastern Airlines 1980's in my AI world.FSX capacity to have multiple aircraft folders, and the previous capability we had to create low level scenery folders for different catagories of flight plans (Propliners, Retro, etc) gives us a lot of flexiblity for the future.

Folks are just starting to test this.Some people have removed the exit data to keep their FSX with AI flyable.We've got two things to discover and test.The polygon hit and impact of the jetways in static mode.The FPS hit on movement of jetways.It does not look like the jetways are multi-LOD models - so there is probably a great opportunity there for a model developer.

I wrote a review on AirNav Systems' Live Traffic X, which will hopefully get posted soon. Live Traffic X uses FAA data to recreate IFR flights into, out of, and around North America. The data you use in FSX is updated from AirNav Systems Internet server, so that your schedules are maintained automatically, and are up-to-date for the time that you are simming. It's an incredibly complex system that actually requires little input from the user. I don't know if I can or should say more before the review comes out, but others on the forums have talked about it -- some of the threads were memorable and entertaining, as I recall. Jeff ShylukAvsim Product Reviewer

I am pretty happy with MyTraffic X. Although it doesn't have accurate flight plans, it is good enough for me. I loved UT for FS9 and have also spent hours tweaking and replacing the default AI with PAI or AIA models and the result was just great - stunning, realistic and almost accurate traffic.Right now, it looks like UT is dead, the developer doesn't seem to update it anymore and I have to say that I was a little ticked off when there were suddenly no flight schedule updates anymore. The previous updates were pushed out slowly at best when the schedule was already almost over and when the devs started to receive inquires about the lack of updates, it was shrugged off and I think they just let UT "die". At least for FS9 - maybe they're working on an FSX version. I was willing to pay for flight schedule updates (and did for previous schedule updates). Either it has been too tedious to compile, the effort/price/demand ration was not right, the devs just lost interest or they're secretly working on something new.Oh well :(Pat

>Right now, it looks like UT is dead, the developer doesn't>seem to update it anymore and I have to say that I was a>little ticked off when there were suddenly no flight schedule>updates anymore. The previous updates were pushed out slowly>at best when the schedule was already almost over and when the>devs started to receive inquires about the lack of updates, it>was shrugged off and I think they just let UT "die". At least>for FS9 - maybe they're working on an FSX version. UT is working on a patch that was supposed to be released ~ May 20th, but it hasn't happened yet. The patch removes a lot of stuff that was there for FS9, most of it I could care less about except the item "12. General aviation traffic to be REMOVED". I think that may be a showstopper for me, so I've started to look into the other traffic software...http://ultimatetraffic.flight1.net/forums/...ts.asp?TID=3496

Reggie:Is there any hint from ACES that they will look at extending a weekly AI cycles to a broader time frame? I'm talking about the option to have all retro and historical airliners load whenever you dial earlier years. This would make a great application for all the work by retro AI designers (and btw, scenery and missions too!) and will satisfy those with complete set of historical schedules per airline. The idea of "time machine" was discussed long time ago in FS9 forums but I was out of the loop for some time so I'm not sure if this question has been revisited.Cheers,=S.V.=

>I am pretty happy with MyTraffic X. Although it doesn't have>accurate flight plans, it is good enough for me. That's kind of how I feel about AI traffic in FS. I like it to be accurate, but not super-super-accurate where I want exact timetables and 10 different BA liveries (or have they all gone to Landor?).Ok, i admit it, I do have 5 or 6 different Frontier animal tails. :)RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

>>Aeroflot I could accept - just not Southwest!!!>Nah, that's Dallas-Love. :) Southwest is one that I am looking to do, after I finish Fedex. >>I also have Pan Am 1970's schedule and Eastern Airlines 1980's>in my AI world.>>Nice! With Eastern Airlines "hockey-stick" livery?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

Good to hear that the UT team is still active. However - how good is UT without current flight schedules or schedules from 2005 compared to MyTraffic? For me it kind of defies the purpose - either accurate traffic (UT) or emulated (MyTraffic). If it is "semi-accurate" or "2005 accurate" then I can just go with MyTraffic. Just my thought.But - I do understand that we're pushing the limits in how far accuracy can go. Take the AIRAC cycles: How good are super-current navdata and apporaches, if there are no accurate plates available (especially for areas outside of the US)? Pretty useless. For that, I'd rather stick to one cycle and expand my library of plates that I have at least a set that I can fly with.Sure, traffic is another thing. You don't *need* traffic to fly accurately, but it'd be a nice extra.Pat

They had a note at the bottom saying they'd update schedules for FS9 at the same time. So I'm assuming a schedule update is tied in with this patch.