Scientists can reverse aging in mice.

[martin-w 3,235]

9 hours ago, dmwalker said:

I wonder what would happen to pensions.

 

Well I guess, if/when significantly extended lifespans are a reality, you would physically be able to carry on working. Whether we would want to keep working for many decades more is the question. 

[martin-w 3,235]

8 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Even if the brain can be made young again and reduce or eliminate things like Alzheimer's, I would think Mental Health would still be a major problem due to that fact the brain was never meant to function for so long, I don't think you can take your current knowledge and go back to 17 again, I think like a hard drive it just gets full and won't function as well with prolonged unnatural life. 

 

I would say mental health issues would still be an issue because many (perhaps the majority) of mental health issues aren't relates to aging. My OCD for example is partly/mostly related to genetics. The exact cause of mental health disorders isn't known, but heredity, biology, trauma, environmental stress have all been implicated. One way aging can be related to mental health is in terms of physical health deteriorating and therefore causing mental health issues like depression and anxiety However, we're talking about extended healthy lifespans so that doesn't apply.

As for a brains memory capacity, logic would dictate that there must be a limit but I recall reading that the capacity of the brain is something like 2 - 3 petabytes, so very significant with more than is required for our lifetimes. The point though, is that there's no reason to think we would all go bonkers if we lived to be 300, because our brains were full, because we forget memories frequently, freeing up more space. So The way I see it is akin to a mega sized hard drive, yes, we learn stuff, but superfluous stuff gets deleted too. 

 

7 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

When this is priced out of the market for most and available to the privileged few

 

We cant assume that's going to be the case, but I do understand why you would fear that. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by martin-w

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

I would say mental health issues would still be an issue because many (perhaps the majority) of mental health issues aren't relates to aging. My OCD for example is partly/mostly related to genetics. The exact cause of mental health disorders isn't known, but heredity, biology, trauma, environmental stress have all been implicated. One way aging can be related to mental health is in terms of physical health deteriorating and therefore causing mental health issues like depression and anxiety However, we're talking about extended healthy lifespans so that doesn't apply.

As for a brains memory capacity, logic would dictate that there must be a limit but I recall reading that the capacity of the brain is something like 2 - 3 petabytes, so very significant with more than is required for our lifetimes. The point though, is that there's no reason to think we would all go bonkers if we lived to be 300, because our brains were full, because we forget memories frequently, freeing up more space. So The way I see it is akin to a mega sized hard drive, yes, we learn stuff, but superfluous stuff gets deleted too. 

 

 

We cant assume that's going to be the case, but I do understand why you would fear that. 

Everything around the 'Fountain of Youth' has always been driven by people with mental health issues that have money, Plastic Surgery is a billion dollar industry, so is Steroids or other supplements. we've all seen the damage from any of those industries it goes without saying. Yes in some circumstances it does some good like for accident victims or burns etc, but for the most part the profits are not in that area, profits lay with exploitation

This anti-aging concept is far more lucrative compared to Plastic Surgery or any other former form of body modifications but reality is it is exactly that, another form of body modification that like its predecessors, will leave you emotionally damaged, but unlike the others this one forces your brain to live well beyond it's means which is unchartered territory. 

Perhaps some of this technology could be used to help things like Alzheimer's or Parkinson's which is narrowing it down to a treatment in some circumstances, but that isn't where the profits are. Profits are with the body modifications and the dream of youth.

I am now 50, I like my receding hair line, I've got a beard that stands out across the room, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and die and would die with no regrets, because I like the way I look, I like not knowing my own mortality, dying tomorrow is totally fine with me if that was what happens because I have no regrets up to this moment. In no way do I have any reason to alter my own mortality or looks, I think that is a load of (word not allowed), I never liked those plastic surgery freaks or steroid pumpers and this is just the next waste of money for those with that mindset, because yes that mentality will ultimately become the major consumer, and as I have said there will be mental health issues around this like any other form of this and that is the exploitation, especially around those with power and influence over others. 

Anyhow no thanks, if this is for you take out a second mortgage and go down that rabbit hole and see what happens

Edited June 9, 2022 by Matthew Kane

[dmwalker 604]

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Well I guess, if/when significantly extended lifespans are a reality, you would physically be able to carry on working. Whether we would want to keep working for many decades more is the question. 

Pensions are based on life expectancy so, if you retire at age 65 with a certain pension based on life expectancy of, say, 80 years, then reverse age to gain an extra 30 years, your existing pension amount could not be maintained.

[martin-w 3,235]

31 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

Everything around the 'Fountain of Youth' has always been driven by people with mental health issues that have money, Plastic Surgery is a trillion dollar industry, so is Steroids or other supplements. we've all seen the damage from any of those industries it goes without saying.

 

Not quite the same in my opinion. In the context you mention, enhancing muscular hypertrophy in skeletal muscles by taking artificial male hormone is vanity. In the context you mention, plastic surgery is too. Of course both of those activates can be engaged in for other reasons than vanity (competitive bodybuilding, sport, corrective surgery etc). I should also add that the majority of people that engage in those activates aren't mentally ill. It doesn't mean you have a mental health disorder just because you engage in cosmetic surgery or take PED's. My daughter has had Botox and lip fillers, is she mentally ill? No, she's not, she could afford it and has improved here appearance. Its only a minority that abuse such things. 

Enhancing longevity is entirely different to vanity or a Fountain of Youth" scenario. Aging is not a walk in the park, the breakdown in the way the body functions as a result of aging is unpleasantly profound. Many diseases are associated with the aging process. If human beings can live a longer lifer with less physical suffering that is a good thing, not a bad thing. 

 

31 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

This anti-aging concept is far more lucrative compared to Plastic Surgery or any other former form of body modifications but reality is it is exactly that, a form of body modification that like its predecessors, will leave you emotionally damaged, and forcing your brain to live will beyond it's means.

 

Well I think we've already established that a persons brain is not likely to be adversely impacted simply because they live healthier and longer. There's no evidence that's a thing. In fact mental health issues could well be reduced, as its the aging process that's responsible for some of them. As for calling it "body modification" what on Earth is wrong with that? You could refer to many medical procedures that repair damage and combat illness as "body modification. 

 

31 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

I am now 50, I like my receding hair line, I've got a beard that stands out across the room, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and die and would die with no regrets, because I like the way I look,

 

That's great Mathew. But would you also like being 85 years old and suffering all of the physical issues that entails? Or would you rather be healthier in your old age? ( Also enhanced lifespan)

 

Quote

Anyhow no thanks I quite like my mortality and the way I look, and the way I think, I don't buy into any body modifications past, present or future, you guys may like this leave me out thanks

 

No more dentistry for you then, as that's body modification. No more caps when your teeth are rotten. No more fillings. No pins in your bones when you break a leg. No more antibiotics that "modify" your immune system. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by martin-w

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

7 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

Not quite the same in my opinion. In the context you mention, enhancing muscular hypertrophy in skeletal muscles by taking artificial male hormone is vanity. In the context you mention, plastic surgery is too. Of course both of those activates can be engaged in for other reasons than vanity (competitive bodybuilding, sport, corrective surgery etc). I should also add that the majority of people that engage in those activates aren't mentally ill. It doesn't mean you have a mental health disorder just because you engage in cosmetic surgery or take PED's. My daughter has had Botox and lip fillers, is she mentally ill? No, she's not, she could afford it and has improved here appearance. Its only a minority that abuse such things. 

Enhancing longevity is entirely different to vanity or a Fountain of Youth" scenario. Aging is not a walk in the park, the breakdown in the way the body functions as a result of aging is unpleasantly profound. Many diseases are associated with the aging process. If human beings can live a longer lifer with less physical suffering that is a good thing, not a bad thing. 

Well I think we've already established that a persons brain is not likely to be adversely impacted simply because they live healthier and longer. There's no evidence that's a thing. In fact mental health issues could well be reduced, as its the aging process that's responsible for some of them. As for calling it "body modification" what on Earth is wrong with that? You could refer to many medical procedures that repair damage and combat illness as "body modification. 

Like I said already and I will say it again;  if this is for you take out a second mortgage and go down that rabbit hole and see what happens

7 minutes ago, martin-w said:

That's great Mathew. But would you also like being 85 years old and suffering all of the physical issues that entails? Or would you rather be healthier in your old age? ( Also enhanced lifespan)

I am a dual citizen and the citizenship of both my nations have a right to die law, as long as I have quality of life I am good, as I have clearly indicated I have no fear of death either, if my quality of life was diminished I would much rather take out my right to die over the dream of the 'Fountain of Youth'

I will say it again.... if this is for you take out a second mortgage and go down that rabbit hole and see what happens

Edited June 9, 2022 by Matthew Kane

[martin-w 3,235]

8 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Pensions are based on life expectancy so, if you retire at age 65 with a certain pension based on life expectancy of, say, 80 years, then reverse age to gain an extra 30 years, your existing pension amount could not be maintained.

 

True... which was why I mentioned the fact that in theory, you could still be working and not drawing on a pension. And as I said, the question is if people would want to continue to work for an extended lifespan. 

[dmwalker 604]

Here is an excerpt from an interview Sinclair did in 2019 on everythingzoomer.com:

"TL: And you’re not worried about humans kicking around for all that extra time?

DS: It’s so hard to extend the lifespan of a mouse by 20 per cent — I’m not worried about that. We won’t realize the dream in our lifetime. It’s not likely that we can reset the whole body and live in perpetuity.

[martin-w 3,235]

Just now, Matthew Kane said:

Like I said already and I will say it again;  if this is for you take out a second mortgage and go down that rabbit hole and see what happens

 

Might not require "a second mortgage". We are talking about a medical protocol that is in the future, not now. We have no idea what the political system will be by that time, or how society will be run. We also don't really know what kind of treatment a longevity drug would entail. Once we understand the aging process better, it could turn out to be a cheap easy to manufacture drug. And if everyone wants it, then economy of scale comes into play. So personally,. I'm not prepared to guess wheter you will need to be rich to afford the therapy or not. 

 

6 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

I am a dual citizen and the citizenship of both my nations have a right to die law, as long as I have quality of life I am good, as I have clearly indicated I have no fear of death either, if my quality of like was diminished I would much rather take out my right to die over the dream of the 'Fountain of Youth'

 

I respect your right to not desire a longer lifespan. Labelling it a "fountain of Youth" dream I cant agree with though. Its more than that, as mentioned.  

[dmwalker 604]

28 minutes ago, martin-w said:

the question is if people would want to continue to work for an extended lifespan. 

The problem is that they would have to work for an extended lifespan. For someone who retires at 65 with an expected lifespan of 100-120 years, the pension amount based on that expected lifespan would be too small.

You could say that today you have to work for 40 years to get a decent pension which will last for 20 years. Based on that ratio, for a lifespan of 120 years, you would have to work for 60 years to get a decent pension which would last for 30 years

Edited June 9, 2022 by dmwalker

[birdguy 3,943]

54 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Pensions are based on life expectancy so, if you retire at age 65 with a certain pension based on life expectancy of, say, 80 years,

I sent 26 years in military service.  I have been drawing a military pension for 30 years already with no end in sight. 

Getting close to same with Social Security.  I believe I've already been paid more than I ever put in.  

I was talking to my old commanding officer on the phone the other day.  We both retired in the same month.  I mentioned that someone who enlisted on the day we retired and stayed in for 20 years has already been drawing his pension for ten years.

I am currently a ward of the government and you can throw in Medicare as a bonus.

Where all this money comes from I believe is a forbidden topic here so I leave it to your own imagination.

Noel

[birdguy 3,943]

What about changing culture?  I am already an alien in today's culture.  Just a few days ago we were talking about iPhones everyone carries around with them these days.  Social media is alien to me.  I have never signed on to Facebook or anything like it.  I'm afraid to advance to MSFS because I am already up to my neck with P3D (an extension of FSX which I am familiar with).

A cannot see my wife and I returning to our 20s and 30s and going dancing.  We held each other and slowly danced around the dance floor to slow music.  I could not adapt to what I see now when young people go dancing.  It looks like a pogo stick convention.

Or concerts with music that sounds like a cacophony of sounds played at 5,000 decibels with a half naked guy in purple hair shouting obscenities from the stage.

I'm just content to die in peace when my allotted time on earth expires.

Which reminds me.  There's an old Arab saying that the time spent fishing is not deducted from your allotted time on earth.  I spent a lot of time fishing.

Noel

[martin-w 3,235]

1 hour ago, dmwalker said:

The problem is that they would have to work for an extended lifespan. For someone who retires at 65 with an expected lifespan of 100-120 years, the pension amount based on that expected lifespan would be too small.

You could say that today you have to work for 40 years to get a decent pension which will last for 20 years. Based on that ratio, for a lifespan of 120 years, you would have to work for 60 years to get a decent pension which would last for 30 years

 

I know. I agreed. 😀 Like I said, not sure if people would want to keep working for an extended lifespan.

Its useless us trying to speculate how society would manage, given that a significantly expended lifespan is quite a way into the future. Society will be much different to now. We may be looking at at Star Trek scenario for all we know, where work is voluntary rather than compulsory. Not sure how that would work, but it may be that automation is the name of the game.

[martin-w 3,235]

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

A cannot see my wife and I returning to our 20s and 30s and going dancing.  We held each other and slowly danced around the dance floor to slow music. 

 

Why not, in a free society you can do more or less what you like. Nobody is going to stop you. So maybe, if the hypothetical healthy longevity we speculate about comes to fruition, we may find that society is much more diverse culturally, with older, healthy, spritely people keeping the old pastimes and traditions alive and the youngsters introducing the new.

And actually, such dancing is alive and well now.  Its still a thing.

Edited June 9, 2022 by martin-w

[birdguy 3,943]

16 minutes ago, martin-w said:

And actually, such dancing is alive and well now.  Its still a thing

Yeah, twice a year at the senior center.

Noel