Why should I choose a different plane just because a lot of my flights are really short? I have no interest in turboprops. I want to fly the 737NGX. As I have already stated, I can do this without any problems most of the time. All of my flights have a ToC. In fact, some of them are so short that I have to dial the cruise altitude back to 4000 feet or less because the cruise altitude is unachievable. This is not a problem, as I simply reset it in the FMS.

I know that I do not need a ToD. The point I am trying to make is that without a ToD, the aircraft is unable to use VNAV to start the descent. I can quite easily do it manually using LVL CHG, but that is not what I want to do!

Chris, I suggest you ask over at the PMDG forum where experts including real world pilots can answer you. I never cruise at such low levels.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/pmdg-737-ngx

Edited August 21, 20223 yr by Ray Proudfoot
Corrected link

Chris, if you can reproduce this, are you able to show a pic of your legs page?

For the record, I modified one of these short flights slightly. It was originally a departure from runway 18L at EHAM Amsterdam Schiphol on the ANDIK 2E SID, and then a turn back to the SPIJKERBOOR VOR, and then an ILS approach to runway 18C. No amount of fiddling around would get a ToD to appear on the ND. However, when I removed the ANDIK waypoint from the flightplan (so the link was from the PAMPUS VOR to SPIJKERBOOR), the ToD appeared.

Does that indicate a possible bug under certain circumstances?

During preflight did you load  the SID, STAR and approach? There can be issues (even in the RW) when planning a departure and arrival at the same place. The turn from ANDIK back to SPY VOR is very acute. The  FMS may have had difficulty in calculating the track mileage from ANDIK and possibly as a consequence, the TOD position, which was resolved when you removed it. Does it make any difference if you leave the route discontinuity in between ANDIK and SPY? When the TOD point does not display what VNAV mode are you in, ECON CRZ or ECON DES  (assuming no manually entered speeds)?
Also try loading the STAR and approach after reaching your CRZ altitude. I have had issues in PMDG aircraft whereby following a missed approach and entering another approach that I have had VNAV descent logic issues.

 

I just loaded the route as per yours in the PMDG 777 in P3D4.5 and its fine with both TOC and TOD displayed. CRZ alt 5000 ft.

 

Edited August 29, 20223 yr by cowpatz

I will check that out, as I also have the PMDG 777. I note that the SIDNI waypoint in your screenshot is not included in my flightplan, but that could be because I am using the navigational database that was included with the PMDG 747 product (which I think is from 2017).

That ILS approach plate was effective 6 JUL 22 so there may have been IF changes. Also the ANDIK2E SID is now ANDIK 3E eff: 12 May 22.
Of course none of that should really effect the lack of a TOD position.

On 8/21/2022 at 4:04 PM, Christopher Low said:

The ToD is calculated correctly in 99.9% of my flights, so I do not think that it is an install issue. In fact, if I create fictional "direct to" waypoints that closely approximate the flightplans of the two flights in question, the ToD is displayed. It makes me wonder if it is a small bug that only rears its head under unusual circumstances. After all, most of my own flights are hardly "by the book"

For the record, the EGPD-EGPN flightplan is as simple as departure from runway 34 at Aberdeen on the ADN SID, and then turn south to intercept the IAN27 approach into Dundee.

You must be doing something wrong. I've done countless virgin ferries in the sim on the 744, 787 and a330. All of them calculate it right. In the PMDG, qw and aerosoft versions.  Not to mention even shorter ferries from LGW TO LHR and reverse at 6000 feet and the 747 can work it out. 

PS... The BA and Virgin company routes for MAN TO LHR is at FL190 and  SANBA (sid) N859 HON (star) 

 

The UL612 (that Ray incorrectly is suggesting) is an upper airway, and not to be used below 245 for planning.   A common mistake used by people who don't understand airspace rules. CAT C

https://www.nats.aero/ae-home/introduction-to-airspace/#:~:text=Upper air routes (UARs) sit,is Class C controlled airspace.

 

Upper air routes (UARs) sit above airways. Their vertical limits are usually FL 250 (25,000 feet) – FL 460 (46,000 feet). Civil and military aircraft operating above FL 245 (24,500 feet) are subject to a full and mandatory Air Traffic Control Service. All airspace above 24,500 feet is Class C controlled airspace.

 

Alas Chris mate you are not alone. yesterday  I foolishly decided to do flight into PMI.  One of teenage twitch streamers was doing a group flight to IBZ with an army of other young children on vatsim. I would guess quite new to the sim with the PMDG releasing for ms2020 last week.  They also seemily couldn't work out the correct TOD or basic RT and it turned into carnage. In the end the Controller just logged off in frustration.  As what also happens nowadays of a weekend in London airspace on vatsim. The controllers just give up, who can blame them

 

Edited August 30, 20223 yr by fluffyflops

Whilst I respect your knowledge in this area, Pete.....a blanket statement that "I must be doing something wrong" does not convince me. I have conducted flights from London Gatwick to London Heathrow in P3Dv4, and the FMS calculates the ToD just fine (as it does in 99.9% of the hundreds of different short flights that I have completed over the years). If I was "doing something wrong", it would fail to calculate the ToD every time.

I have not tested the EHAM circuit with the 777 yet, but I will definitely let you all know the result when I have done so.

10 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

Alas Chris mate you are not alone. yesterday  I foolishly decided to do flight into PMI.  One of teenage twitch streamers was doing a group flight to IBZ with an army of other young children on vatsim. I would guess quite new to the sim with the PMDG releasing for ms2020 last week.  They also seemily couldn't work out the correct TOD or basic RT and it turned into carnage. In the end the Controller just logged off in frustration.  As what also happens nowadays of a weekend in London airspace on vatsim. The controllers just give up, who can blame them

 

This is what happens when you put complex add ons on kiddies consoles. VATSIM has a new rule now that a user must be competent in flying their aircraft before logging on.
Maybe time to start reporting and policing it.