This Is, Hands Down, The Most Boring Video I've Ever Seen!

[Gazzareth 808]

14 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

No, someone always says that, no matter what plane and no matter what issue. Maybe you are a very orderly person and don't realize it (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
 

I do pretty much follow the same procedure every time, although all the posts you reference (other than the controller issue/park brake) are on about the 600, I'm using the 700 - just surprised issue affects one and not other...

G

 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

3 minutes ago, Gazzareth said:

I do pretty much follow the same procedure every time, although all the posts you reference (other than the controller issue/park brake) are on about the 600, I'm using the 700 - just surprised issue affects one and not other...

Yes, the 600 is the buggiest of all of the versions, though some have had issues with the 700, but I don't think with the brake.

The issues aren't there when the game starts, so even though people try to deflect and blame MSFS itself (including PMDG), well my thoughts are this:

1) It happens on NO other planes in the game, so trying to claim the PMDG's advanced brake logic was affected by MSFS SU-X, if so, then fix it (but they don't fix it)
2) The FMS issue on the 600 happens to everyone (I'm almost certain), because I had a friend who has the exact same issue and our PC's are nothing alike.
3) The plane works fine when I first start up, but various things trigger the bugs (enabling dev or slew or replay mode, changing legs on the FMS, etc..)

It is not related to addons, liveries, or any of this stuff.
That said, for $35, it's still worth it overall, just a bit annoying.
 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Gazzareth 808]

4 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

 

3) The plane works fine when I first start up, but various things trigger the bugs (enabling dev or slew or replay mode, changing legs on the FMS, etc..)
 

First three I have never done, the last I have definitely done. If it had issues even one in four flights I would probably feel the same way tbh....

G

[Ricardo41 5,955]

😬

[VBHB 298]

I still holding out you should of to Ricardo.

Edited October 31, 2022 by VBHB

[Ricardo41 5,955]

First non-flying (next week, when I'm on vacation) impressions:

Easy install straight into the community folder. 

PMDG OpCent easy to use and intuitive

Intitial load didn't take too long, frame rates on the ground comparable to what one would get with the FBW A320, maybe a notch better. 

Nice tutorial flight manual. Thank God they didn't include largely useless "original Boeing" manuals. 

If you don't look to close, textures are alright. 

What brings this down several notches is that you can only access the cabin with the drone view. Cumbersome. 

I immediately downloaded a mod to get wing views. 

[ryanbatc 12,871]

3 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

First non-flying (next week, when I'm on vacation) impressions:

Easy install straight into the community folder. 

PMDG OpCent easy to use and intuitive

Intitial load didn't take too long, frame rates on the ground comparable to what one would get with the FBW A320, maybe a notch better. 

Nice tutorial flight manual. Thank God they didn't include largely useless "original Boeing" manuals. 

If you don't look to close, textures are alright. 

What brings this down several notches is that you can only access the cabin with the drone view. Cumbersome. 

I immediately downloaded a mod to get wing views. 

My my my you're starting to buy addons for this sim.  Don't buy all the addons, save some for the rest of us 😉

[Stearmandriver 2,304]

On 10/28/2022 at 12:25 PM, Alpine Scenery said:

You basically have to start a flight, enter everything in the FMS while on the ground, take off, land.
Stop the flight, restart. If you do things out of order at all, it usually causes a bug.

This is a very odd statement.  First as a disclaimer, I don't use the PMDG -600, but rather the -700; and second, I fly NGs for work in reality. 

The PMDG FMC (I'm pretty sure it's the same box in all variants, there's no reason it wouldn't be) is the best-simulated FMC I've seen in MSFS.  You can certainly modify a route at will in it without bugs... I've diverted and done air turnbacks, in addition to the common cases of a Vatsim controller giving me a runway or arrival change.  Of course this all works normally.  

I've also flown multiple short legs without ending the flight, rebuilding the box entirely for each new segment.  Entirely normal.

I operate the PMDG according to real procedures, since they're what I know and I'm far too lazy to learn a separate set of "sim procedures" to be able to use a sim.  The fact that I've never read a piece of PMDG guidance, but simply operate their plane the way it's done in reality and everything works normally (to include negative effects when I miss something because I'm distracted talking to stream chat etc.) kind of tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the PMDG birds.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

So you know every bug because you haven't experienced it?

There are bugs as they are documented in their forums. It is different configurations that trigger it, different controller mapping and drivers, different order of events, people doing different things, etc...

3 out of 4 times I can modify a route, but the FMC not taking an entry is a known documented bug. For me, it is the buggiest plane of all that I own, as far as things malfunctioning at times, no other plane in the game has malfunctioned as many times as the PMDG-600. Some people have had better luck, but I am just speaking from my experience.

If bug testing were that easy, then software companies would not have open betas, they'd simply have one person on one machine with one config test for bugs, the end. It never ceases to amaze me how people think if they haven't seen a bug, it cannot exist...
 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Stearmandriver 2,304]

11 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

So you know every bug because you haven't experienced it?

There are bugs as they are documented in their forums. It is different configurations that trigger it, different controller mapping and drivers, different order of events, people doing different things, etc...

No,  but I can make a rational judgement that a bug *doesn't* exist if I (and hundreds of others) routinely perform a task and experience no bug.

What do you suppose a controller or driver would have to do with FMC operation? These things do not affect the FMC.

"Different order of events, people doing different things..." *now* you're onto something. Easily 90+% of "bug reports" I see on the PMDG forums are simply operator error / lack of understanding. This is especially true of FMC operation. 

Of course the plane is not bug free; no software is.  But I really can't think of many involving the FMC, certainly not of the type you describe.  Basic functions like a route modification work correctly, every time.  No hardware or driver differences would change that for another user.  

[Ricardo41 5,955]

Funny thing is: PMDG is now selling their bird as a Ctrl E kinda plane. It pretty much says it right there on p. 15 of their manual.😄

Quite a change from the early days, where it was all about "real pilots" and 6000 pages of Boeing manuals.

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

2 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

No,  but I can make a rational judgement that a bug *doesn't* exist if I (and hundreds of others) routinely perform a task and experience no bug.

What do you suppose a controller or driver would have to do with FMC operation? These things do not affect the FMC.

Of course the plane is not bug free; no software is.  But I really can't think of many involving the FMC, certainly not of the type you describe.  Basic functions like a route modification work correctly, every time.  No hardware or driver differences would change that for another user.  

You are trying to assign your tiny own experience to everyone like only your setup matters and everyone else's setup will function the same, that is pointless and irrational. As far as hundreds of people having no issues, those are made up numbers by you. Your not even using the same plane, and we don't know what differences might exist (no idea). Hundreds of others, umm sorry, but there are numerous posts about these bugs, and PMDG has already attempted to patch some but some remain.

As someone that has been programming for years and years, I can tell you that absolutely control events can fail during different setups and trigger a general state error condition where the state is not refreshed, these types of issues can bubble into other parts of the planes (because of conditional checks failing or error handlers being tripped). The FMC has to keep track of state, there is a series of variables and conditions it uses to allow or deny input, something in that "acceptance of input state" is not correct. Most likely it is caused by Dev and Slew mode, that specific error. The brake error has been documented to be the result of controller assignments, but I haven't messed with that. 

I don't see any sign that the FMC error is on my side, since it works 75% of the time, that makes no sense. It won't accept NAV changes, POS INIT, Leg-STAR additions/removal, or the Origin / Departure in any of the normal places it should. I know that's normal to not accept departure assignment ICAO without first having set the origin, but it doesn't even accept the origin when the bug occurs. The ONLY thing it will accept is the Flight Number, pretty much across the entire FMC, it's a bug. The brake also gets stuck, and no holding down the brake does not release it. They have some state tracking bugs in this thing, it's obvious.
 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[MDFlier 2,031]

3 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Funny thing is: PMDG is now selling their bird as a Ctrl E kinda plane. It pretty much says it right there on p. 15 of their manual.😄

Quite a change from the early days, where it was all about "real pilots" and 6000 pages of Boeing manuals.

That's because "Buy this plane. It's really complicated, and will take you months of work before you can get any enjoyment at all out of it." isn't exactly the best marketing strategy in the world. 😄

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

23 minutes ago, Kyuss said:

Says the guy going on about their issues with the -600 in a thread talking about the -700 & -800 BBJ. 👍

Whatever, I'm not going on about anything. I did not even invite or want any of this aggravation, but I'm going to respond to ridiculous blatant propaganda that this thing always works 100% perfectly and it's just me (yah right)... I'm just stating my facts that the -600 does not work all the time, it's hardly off topic considering this thread was a general thread about PMDG 737-800 and 737-900, wow so I commented on the 600 and you claim that's off-topic. You are reaching/stretching... 

People are in such la-la land sometimes that any comment about an issue and they go into some auto-defensive mode like they are knights defending the last round table. Wasn't even criticizing the product, just simply stating a fact, it is the most buggy plane I own, for me it is. For you, maybe not...

Do you have anything better to do than to hassle people this morning?

Edited November 1, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Stearmandriver 2,304]

7 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

I don't see any sign that the FMC error is on my side, since it works 75% of the time, that makes no sense.

Sure it does, if you're doing something out of order 25% of the time without understanding it... which is by far the most common "bug" people report on the PMDG forums.  The odd thing is that they then get offended when it is explained that what they're seeing is not a bug. You'd think that would be *good* news ;).

But if you'd like, specify one of these cases that fails for you 25% of the time, and your exact workflow when trying to accomplish the task in the box, and I'll bet we can figure it out. 

Dev mode has no effect on the PMDG (or any aircraft) btw, not unless you then do something with the dev mode menu.  Slew, yes... many complex addons don't like slew.  Not sure I'd call that a bug so much as an MSFS-ism.