FSR vs DLSS

[Chunk 251]

Shouldn't it nearly eliminate the "jaggies," as stated in the manual?

Here are two PNG's I just captured.  4K resolution, the top on is MSAA x2 and the bottom us MSAA x8.

Look at the props.  It gets better at 8x, but FPS takes a nosedive at that level.  X-Plane nails the sky and lighting though...no argument there!

[Chunk 251]

19 minutes ago, mSparks said:

AA does nothing on a 4k monitor.

Is that an X-Plane only feature?  It works fine on DCS and MSFS.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Chunk

[mSparks 2,092]

8 minutes ago, Chunk said:

Shouldn't it nearly eliminate the "jaggies," as stated in the manual?

single pixel jaggies, when single pixels are visible on the display.

the "jaggies" in XP12 are (most likely) VRAM/shader related, no amount of blur filter will fix them. 

7 minutes ago, Chunk said:

Is that an X-Plane only feature?  It works fine on DCS and MSFS.

Have you actually tried it off in DCS and MSFS and confirmed you can actually see a difference?

Edited January 7, 2023 by mSparks

[Chunk 251]

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

single pixel jaggies, when single pixels are visible on the display.

the "jaggies" in XP12 are (most likely) VRAM/shader related, no amount of blur filter will fix them. 

Have you actually tried it off and confirmed you can actually see a difference?

Part 1: OK, that explanation does make sense.

Part 2: Yes, I've seen the difference in DCS, MSFS, and IL-2.

[bogdansrb 230]

I have 12GB of VRAM that x-plane never uses, and I still get jaggies.

[mSparks 2,092]

7 minutes ago, Chunk said:

Part 2: Yes, I've seen the difference in DCS, MSFS, and IL-2.

Just playing CSGO, here's two SS's one with AA off, and one with 8xMSAA. which is which and why?

[Chunk 251]

Don't know, they're not the same shot, and they're 1920x951 images.  Humor me, and tell me; and then explain why.

[mSparks 2,092]

1 minute ago, Chunk said:

and they're 1920x951 images.

had to cut the FPS counter off the bottom or you could tell by that

[Chunk 251]

I didn’t think you were trying to be evasive or sneaky, and I don’t want to come off as argumentative. Looking at the screenshots I posted, and just using the eye test, you can see what I would call “jaggies,” even at 8x MSAA. I could 100% be wrong, but when I see those type of graphics in any other sim, anti-aliasing fixes it. So all I’m saying here is that X-Plane doesn’t do it as well as other sims. Is that something they can fix? I did not have any version of XP prior to 12, but in reading threads about XP11, this issue did not exist. 

[ryanbatc 13,019]

I'm not really sure about all the different types of AA but I can tell from my experience that XP11's MSAA smoothed out edges a lot better than XP12's version.  I run a 1440p monitor and it's just ugly.  It also unmotivates me to take xp12 screenshots because of how poor my images look compared to xp11.

Edited January 8, 2023 by ryanbatc

[mSparks 2,092]

56 minutes ago, Chunk said:

you can see what I would call “jaggies,”

Let me give you an example using the same XP shot from earlier

green = AA 

red = nothing to do with AA, everything to do with lighting/shadows/shaders

you can actually "improve" this (slightly) with FSR

Because FSR does a decent job of "upscaling" the otherwise lower resolution lighting/shadows/shaders - at the expense of everything going more blurry. (yuk)

The "more blurry" is less of an issue when you are upscaling to 4K/8K, rather than effectively downscaling the source image to super tiny turning it on a lower res screen

Its all a resolution vs performance game, GPUs just don't have the horsepower to pump out 4K/8K at 60fps+ -> you even start bumping into physical cable limits trying to do 4K/60fps

https://www.cablematters.com/Blog/HDMI/displayport-vs-hdmi

Quote

HDMI 2.0 supports a maximum bandwidth of 18 Gbps, which is enough to handle 4K resolution at up to 60Hz, or 1080p at up to 240Hz. In comparison, DisplayPort 1.4 has a maximum bandwidth of 32.4Gbps, which opens up a much greater resolution and frame rate potential. It supports 4K resolution at up to 120Hz without compression, and 8K resolution at 30Hz – something HDMI 2.0 can't manage, even with reduced chroma subsampling.

Nvidia did DLSS basically so people on older/low end GPUs could play games like Red Dead Redemption 2 (with a lot of marketing ... erm... "words not allowed"... on top), AMD did FSR to keep last gen consoles competitive that little bit longer.

AA, otoh, was really just about fixing the colors of lines for kids with really sharp eyesight when we were all on 720p displays.

Its more complicated than just one technology - and the fight is all about trying to render a tree believably from 50 miles away.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by mSparks

[Chunk 251]

That's a very fair explanation!

[bogdansrb 230]

Either way, XP still looks bad in this department.

[soaring_penguin 431]

I don’t know about you, but in my experience the problem occurs when clouds are in the game, and it’s also related to the viewing distance. 
I saw similarly issues in xp11 with other 3d weather add on. 
I could be completely wrong but imo it has to do with how those clouds are rendered in game, and the solution has to come from there, not necessarily the AA itself.
 

[fluffyflops 1,861]

10 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

I have 12GB of VRAM that x-plane never uses, and I still get jaggies.

ive 11GB on my 1080ti and get them.

 

surely ive a setting wrong someonewhere??  look at the clouds  and the jaggys on the wing, then as i went through the rain i looked like flown through radioactive waste.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by fluffyflops