I am an MSFS sightseer - take off, see something, and land. I found that most downloadable flight plans are for commercial flights, and casual VFR plans are lengthy and packed with a ton of waypoints. There are very few easy, short flight plans available for beginners, light aircraft, ultralights, etc.  To help fill this gap, I have been sharing my sightseeing flights on flightsim.to (search 'Short VFR').

The most difficult, time consuming part of creating the plans is waypoints. The distance they disappear before reaching the waypoint location varies wildly. Sometimes miles in advance and sometimes they remain visible all the way to the location. Early disappearance makes it nearly impossible to locate desired locations in urban areas. Navigating mountain valleys is difficult because most of the time waypoints are behind mountains (display is too low) or don't show up at all. I cannot figure out what, if any, logic is used for displaying waypoints.

I've tried different types of waypoints (user, vor, ... ) and have even tried classifying waypoints as airports with dummy ICAO codes. I've also tried classifying the plans as IFR versus VFR. Results: MSFS sees imported waypoints as just location coordinates, or it does not display them at all, depending on how the plan is configured.

I've also rummaged around in the program files to try and find waypoint configuration settings, but did not find anything relevant.

So, I thought I would ask the forum collective brain trust if anyone has any tips or knowledge that will help make my flight plans work better for casual users.

Thanks!

I'm not sure from your post if you're aware that you can set up your departure and arrival airports in the standard MSFS flight plan map screen, then click anywhere at all on the map and click "add".    This will set a custom waypoint into your flight plan.   You can do this in any flight plan mode (eg. VFR, IFR low, IFR high).

JYW - Thank you for the suggestion, but it's not quite what I'm looking for. I am very familiar with adding waypoints. I’ve used FSX, MS Flight and MSFS for more than 15 years and understand a lot about it. A few years ago, I wrote a 70-page step-by-step XML manual for FSX gauges (Google: textinfogauge40).

My question is related to how waypoints behave during the actual flight. 

Reason: My short VFR plans are targeted at the most basic users (new users, casual users, ultralight hops, etc.). People who want to take off, fly a short distance and see something along the way, then land, without having to know anything more than basic flight controls. Flight plans that provide simple visual waypoints for these types of users are few, and I’ve been creating short VFR plans to fill the gap.

Although MSFS is a great leap forward from FSX, waypoint behavior is inconsistent and unreliable, and there is essentially no available info regarding how to manipulate them. I’m hoping there are a few folks who have discovered tips that will allow me to control them better in my plans.

 

Are you refering to Points of Interest markers rather than Waypoints? I have no knowlege of using them but someone may know, if indeed that is what you are trying to set up.

Regards...Kenny

Good question, Kenny. I use Little Navmap to create my plans. If I defined a location as a POI in Little Navmap, MSFS sees it the same as if I defined it as a waypoint. I have created plans in MFSF World Map, saved them, then loaded them, and found that the waypoint behavior during actual flight is the same as it is for Little Navmap plans. So it seems that the issue is not the flight plans, but rather is how MSFS chooses to display waypoints in the simulation.

I just posted a response in the flightsimulator.com forum that provides more details about what I am doing and what I am experiencing: 

Remember the first time you loaded a flight simulator and knew nothing about it? Just starting the aircraft and getting off the ground was an accomplishment. Landings were messy. Program configuration was a daunting task. Navigation was yet another level of learning. You were a beginner user.

I found that there are very few easy flight plans for beginner users. Plans that a beginner can simply load and play follow-the-waypoints on the screen in front of them. The lack of beginner flight plans is the gap I am filling with my Short VFR plans. I'm hoping they are also useful to experienced users who just want a simple flying experience.

The scope I am using for flight plan creation is:

• Maximum distance of 50 miles. Preferably under 20 miles.
• Minimal number of waypoints.
• Optimized for Cessna 172 or smaller.
• Only requires beginner flying skills.
• No additional instrumentation, utilities or tools are required.

Here are the behaviors that are frustrating me:

• Waypoint markers often disappear far before reaching the target. In crowded cities, it can be almost impossible to find the target after the waypoint disappears. If the target is a sightseeing item, then it renders the sightseeing flight plan useless.
•  
• The next waypoint marker is often displayed long after the current waypoint disappears. It leaves the user wondering if they should continue forward or assume that maybe waypoints are no longer going to be displayed.
•  
• The problem described above is made worse when sometimes the next waypoint is displayed long before reaching the current waypoint's target. The current target may be the sightseeing location, which you may not yet see, but now the current waypoint is gone and the program is showing you a new marker indicating a change in direction, when you should not be changing direction.
•  
• The instant that the Pattern Entry marker for the destination airport is displayed, all interim waypoints are suppressed. In other words, if you are at WP2, and WP3 and WP4 are still ahead, the moment the Pattern Entry is displayed then WP3 and WP4 will not be displayed. If the same airport is used for both departure and destination, then the Pattern Entry marker often appears soon after takeoff and no waypoints are displayed, at all. Because my target users are not experts, I often include waypoints that align them with the destination runway. The Pattern Entry behavior eliminates the ability to do that.
•  
• In mountainous terrain, it is almost always difficult to get waypoint markers to display correctly, if they are displayed at all. I suspect in many instances the markers are actually there, but are buried inside mountains because MSFS decides their elevation.
•  
• If the distance between waypoints is short, typically less than a mile, then the next waypoint marker is often not displayed, or may only briefly flash on the screen, or may result in no further waypoints being displayed. This is a problem when POIs are near each other, and also when a POI is on a mountainside, necessitating extra waypoints to guide tight turns.

I have unsuccessfully tried to determine the logic of waypoint displays. I've tried flight plan configurations, aircraft types, airspeeds, times to target, types of terrain, etc., etc., and have not found a common denominator. I'm sure there is an algorithm, but in actual usage it seems waypoint behavior is completely random.

Edited January 9, 20233 yr by FederFlyer

Have you tried using LNM as your moving map instead of the built in VFR map, which as you say does misbehave?

I use Little Navmap to create my plans. As mentioned above, I am very experienced with flight simulators. I personally do not need help with following flight plans during my flights.

However, I have been creating flight plans for beginner users, but waypoint behavior in MSFS is inconsistent and unreliable, which will be confusing to beginner users. My question was if anyone has tips for manipulating waypoints, beyond the standard info that is already commonly available.

I think the answer is that no one has that info.

 

" Waypoint markers often disappear "

These waypoints disappear from where and from what? Where were they before they disappeared? Where did you see them in what?

 

 

This is regarding the visual waypoint markers that appear during flight. Some people refer to them as floating markers. I described the issues in detail in a previous response (4th response above).