Landing Fenix versus PMDG 737

[Bobsk8 12,730]

13 minutes ago, Noel said:

Kind of hard to say that unless you have matching sensitivities, no?  When I land PMDG 738 I am making subtle inputs w/ the TM Boeing pendulum yoke and the Saitek before it and no way I can do excessive movements in it and get away with it.

When I first started using PMDG 738 I had been reading about when pilots w/ disconnect the AP on an instrument landing when not using autoland, and the comment was at about 200'.  W/ the MSFS version of the plane it comes in too high for an ILS approach such that if you maintain the pitch establishing in the glideslope I was ending around 100' over the RA at the runway threshold, and could not get landing rates I was after.  So now I hand fly in from about 500' instead of 200' giving me better control over altitude over RA.

Bob, what is your altitude above the runway threshold?  Just a thought

Following the GS, I am usually high over the threshold, unless I dive for the threshold, which is not the way to fly a stabilized approach that I have ever used. And i usually hand fly between 700 and 500 feet agl.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Bobsk8

[bobterri 13]

Would some of you who are getting good landing numbers mind sharing your control sensitivity settings.  That would be very helpful.

[Noel 4,501]

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

Following the GS, I am usually high over the threshold

Why is that I wonder, why are they programmed to bring the pilot in too high?  I guess better than too low? 🙃

[Bobsk8 12,730]

3 minutes ago, Noel said:

Why is that I wonder, why are they programmed to bring the pilot in too high?  I guess better than too low? 🙃

Almost every approach, I see the GS indicator diving towards the ground around 250 feet agl. If you maintain the descent rate prior to that, you will land long and miss the touchdown zone. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Bobsk8

[Max Kraus 339]

I once watched a whole video of head-on RL airbus landings and the one thing I saw on all of them was that the flare was only a very small movement and it happens only after 20ft with the throttle closing. 

[Noel 4,501]

4 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Almost every approach, I see the GS indicator diving towards the ground around 250 feet agl. If you maintain the descent rate prior to that, you will land long and miss the touchdown zone. 

I know, again, why?

[Michael Moe 495]

I dont like the electric elevator trim in MSFS. I am very inconsistent in landings vs P3DV5. Seems like night and day vs sims. Hopefully all this improves over time. 

Anyone who knows the N1 numbers for common weights in the A320 and B737 for manual thrust?

Thanks Michael Moe

[Noel 4,501]

49 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

I dont like the electric elevator trim in MSFS

Interesting I didn't know there was one!  I have always (FSX/P3D/MSFS) just assigned a rocker switch to trim up/down and treated like an electric trim--and it works fine for the 3 planes I use the most.  The B78X HD doesn't seem to respond at all to inputs from this rocket switch.

[Michael Moe 495]

4 minutes ago, Noel said:

Interesting I didn't know there was one!  I have always (FSX/P3D/MSFS) just assigned a rocker switch to trim up/down and treated like an electric trim--and it works fine for the 3 planes I use the most.  The B78X HD doesn't seem to respond at all to inputs from this rocket switch.

There is a delay in the trim  , at least on all my planes. FSUIPC has a workaround but havent tried it out.

Michael Moe

[Claudius_ 326]

My best way to land the Fenix is to do it manually without the autothrottle, or using the autoland.

[bobterri 13]

Let me ask again, if those who are getting good landing numbers would consider sharing your control sensitivity settings?  That would be very helpful.

[RALF9636 1,957]

11 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Almost every approach, I see the GS indicator diving towards the ground around 250 feet agl. If you maintain the descent rate prior to that, you will land long and miss the touchdown zone. 

I think that is a sim issue that has been mentioned several times. Has nothing to do with the Fenix. 

I forget about the ILS as soon as I see the runway or approach lights.

 

[RALF9636 1,957]

11 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

I dont like the electric elevator trim in MSFS. I am very inconsistent in landings vs P3DV5. Seems like night and day vs sims. Hopefully all this improves over time. 

 

10 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

There is a delay in the trim  , at least on all my planes. FSUIPC has a workaround but havent tried it out.

 

You are aware that you do not use the trim at all in an A320? (Apart from setting the TO-trim preflight)

 

[RALF9636 1,957]

7 hours ago, bobterri said:

Let me ask again, if those who are getting good landing numbers would consider sharing your control sensitivity settings?  That would be very helpful.

I have all sensitivity settings at default (except for a Neutral deadzone for my noisy stick).

Most important is to not set a sensitivity curve for the elevator. It would only make your controls more twitchy when using a higher deflection of the elevator - like in the flare. Keep the sensitivity linear for the elevator (and also for the rudder or you will get too twitchy controls in crosswind situations). And do not reduce Reactivity.

 

Other than that I found it is key for a good landing to properly break the descent rate from 600-700 FPM to 300 FPM at around 50 ft - that is before the flare logic of the Airbus kicks in. From there just gently hold up the nose when the Flare begins with small stick inputs. Then pull back the throttle and gently increase the stick input. Do not pull back the throttle too early. If you do it at the same time the Flare mode kicks in - thus lowers the nose - the aircraft will tend to drop to the ground.

To be able to properly break the descent rate at 50 ft you need to have a good feel for the controls. You won't have that when you only disconnect the autopilot at 200 ft. So I would recommend to fly manually at least from 1000 ft to get a good feel for how the aircraft reacts to your control inputs.

 

[jcomm 5,938]

I just  tested it, after a month away from MFS, in the latest Fenix version.

LPMT08-LPPT02 short hop.

Manual flying and throttle after FAF.

Landing was butter, wind was 10 knot with slight cross-component. There was no wing rocking. Uncrabed to align with rw axis just before main touched. Ground physics are still messed though...

I have all axis with 5% dead zone and ON in the Fenix options for realistic pitch sensitivity (so, more sensitive).

Just as I have observed IRL on a few jumpseat experiences in A320s, I start retarding a bit before the aural plays, around maybe 30ft.

Edited January 29, 2023 by cagarini