Helisimmer compares helicopter sims (MSFS is his #1 choice)

[lwt1971 7,419]

Good analysis recently by the helicopter expert himself (Sergio Costa) of various sims: https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/best-helicopter-simulator-2023

His synopsis on MSFS: "Microsoft Flight Simulator has a lot of very interesting and complex features. The scenery is impressive as is the overall graphics quality. The flight dynamics are quite good and the team has been improving it over time. There are quite a few things that still need work but Microsoft and Asobo – the team behind the development of the sim – have been very active, communicative and the sim saw over 35 updates already, between sim updates (that improve the core sim) and world updates, which cover countries or larger regions, to further improve the scenery."

His final conclusions (bolding is his):

This leaves us with 3 choices: MSFS, X-Plane, and FlightGear.

The 3 sims have good flight dynamics, we can fly the world, but only 2 have VR, which leaves FlightGear out of the race.

So, yes, for me, it all comes down to X-Plane and MSFS.

Unfortunately, X-Plane is struggling with performance in VR, and, let’s face it, MSFS has gorgeous, recognizable scenery.

The flight dynamics are not that far apart either. This will trigger some folks out there for sure, but that is my opinion and you are free to disagree.

So, putting both sims on the scale, I would have to say that, in my opinion, weighing every factor that I value, the best sim for helicopters in 2023 is Microsoft Flight Simulator.

No, MSFS is not “the winner”. There are no winners and no losers. This isn’t a competition and we are not fighting for the survival of our tribes.

As I said, I have all these sims installed on my computer and I use more than one. But MSFS is the one that I have been using more and more because it offers me the best compromise and quality on the things that I value.

 

A great recognition of Seb and team's stellar work on CFD and the heli simulation in MSFS 2020, something that is set to get even better in MSFS 2024 which I've got a feeling Sergio will like even more 🙂 
 

Edited July 25, 2023 by lwt1971

[abrams_tank 7,426]

13 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Good analysis by the helicopter expert himself Sergio Costa of various sims: https://www.helisimmer.com/articles/best-helicopter-simulator-2023

His final conclusions (underlining my own, bolding his):

This leaves us with 3 choices: MSFS, X-Plane, and FlightGear.

The 3 sims have good flight dynamics, we can fly the world, but only 2 have VR, which leaves FlightGear out of the race.

So, yes, for me, it all comes down to X-Plane and MSFS.

Unfortunately, X-Plane is struggling with performance in VR, and, let’s face it, MSFS has gorgeous, recognizable scenery.

The flight dynamics are not that far apart either. This will trigger some folks out there for sure, but that is my opinion and you are free to disagree.

So, putting both sims on the scale, I would have to say that, in my opinion, weighing every factor that I value, the best sim for helicopters in 2023 is Microsoft Flight Simulator.

No, MSFS is not “the winner”. There are no winners and no losers. This isn’t a competition and we are not fighting for the survival of our tribes.

As I said, I have all these sims installed on my computer and I use more than one. But MSFS is the one that I have been using more and more because it offers me the best compromise and quality on the things that I value.

I have a feeling he is going to be even happier with MSFS 2024 🙂 
 

Nice find! While I am not a real life pilot, there are a lot of real life pilots here at Avsim. And guess which flight simulator forum is the most active here at Avsim and where most of the real life pilots post at? 🤣

One more thing. A lot of real life pilots were part of Navigraph's last survey: "27.3% have some sort of pilot license" (page 81, last Navigraph survey).  And guess which simulator the Navigraph survey takers overwhelmingly preferred and overwhelmingly use? Yup, it was MSFS. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by abrams_tank

[Sethos 4,357]

MSFS is really becoming an all-encompassing tour de force. One of the very few reasons to stick with X-Plane, for me, was always the flight dynamics, the feel of flight. However, seeing what is actually possible within the MSFS ecosystem lately, especially with the introduction of CFD and what A2A is doing, it's difficult not to fire up X-Plane for me and wonder why I still have it installed.

I am genuinely excited to see what MSFS 2024 brings with its flight improvements and what Andrey can do.

 

[lwt1971 7,419]

1 hour ago, Sethos said:

I am genuinely excited to see what MSFS 2024 brings with its flight improvements and what Andrey can do.

Man oh man, I absolutely cannot wait... though maybe not to the same level of excitement pre 2020, but yes like you say 2024 has got me genuinely interested and excited given what they've shown so far, and given how they're now building on 3+ years of experience with all that they've delivered for 2020.

And yes, MS/Asobo's aim always was to make an all-encompassing sim for all types of audiences, without being constrained by traditional either/or choices, and that is certainly what MSFS has become now.. and will continue to be even more in the future.
 

Edited July 25, 2023 by lwt1971

[David Mills 4,773]

What amazes me as much as the gorgeous, true-to-life scenery in MSFS is its performance. Many were skeptical before the release of MSFS that graphics of such realism could be made to run smoothly on a computer that the average person could afford. But performance was far superior to previous sims, and has continued to improve further ever since release. With MS2024 utilizing multiple cores in a far more robust way, performance will be further enhanced -- along with every other aspect of an already-spectacular sim. 

[OverTheEDJ 266]

Can anyone recommend a "stable" 3PD Heli? I know that word is very subjective.

I am using a Virpil stick with a 200mm extension coupled with sensitivity settings, and I still can’t seem to iron out the twitchy behavior / exaggerated pendulum effect of the default 407. I have the same issue with the freeware R44.

The only 3PD addon that I have is the HPG H145 that I fly 100% of the time; and the trim release "hands on" flight model is pretty good.

[abrams_tank 7,426]

12 minutes ago, David Mills said:

What amazes me as much as the gorgeous, true-to-life scenery in MSFS is its performance. Many were skeptical before the release of MSFS that graphics of such realism could be made to run smoothly on a computer that the average person could afford. But performance was far superior to previous sims, and has continued to improve further ever since release. With MS2024 utilizing multiple cores in a far more robust way, performance will be further enhanced -- along with every other aspect of an already-spectacular sim. 

Absolutely! Also, MSFS is the only civilian flight simulator that supports frame generation for the NVidia 4000 series cards. And it's almost like frame generation was made for flight simulation - almost everyone with an average (or above average) new gaming computer who owns an NVidia 4000 series card is reporting how much better frame generation has improved their experience in MSFS.

MSFS has truly brought flight simulation into 2022/2023 with the support of frame generation for the NVidia 4000 series cards!

[OverTheEDJ 266]

2 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

So, putting both sims on the scale, I would have to say that, in my opinion, weighing every factor that I value, the best sim for helicopters in 2023 is Microsoft Flight Simulator.

I think that the key phrase is..."weighing every factor that I value".

While anyone can nitpick, marginalize, or even hype up a single aspect of a sim, MSFS gives an “overall” balance that satisfies the immersion factor...and great graphics coupled with good performance seem to be a huge plus on that front with consumers. Not to mention the frequent updates & improvements, communication etc...MSFS targets what we value the most..."progress"...in every aspect of the sim.

[David Mills 4,773]

28 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Absolutely! Also, MSFS is the only civilian flight simulator that supports frame generation for the NVidia 4000 series cards. And it's almost like frame generation was made for flight simulation - almost everyone with an average (or above average) new gaming computer who owns an NVidia 4000 series card is reporting how much better frame generation has improved their experience in MSFS.

MSFS has truly brought flight simulation into 2022/2023 with the support of frame generation for the NVidia 4000 series cards!

The only "problem" I currently have with MSFS is literally too many fps for my antiquated TV to properly display. So I have to cap my sim output to 60fps (to agree with my old TV's 60Hz refresh rate). But it is a totally smooth, stutter-free 60fps with all settings on 4K Ultra, and I don't even have frame generation enabled!

Edited July 25, 2023 by David Mills

[Mace 1,928]

1 hour ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I am using a Virpil stick with a 200mm extension coupled with sensitivity settings, and I still can’t seem to iron out the twitchy behavior / exaggerated pendulum effect of the default 407. 

Which Virpil base are you using?

[OverTheEDJ 266]

1 hour ago, Mace said:

Which Virpil base are you using?

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base

[Mace 1,928]

19 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Base

That base allows you to adjust the axis pre-tensioners, so you might try experimenting with that.

The default helos can be a little twitchy, you may want to widen your null zone, but the Cabri is the only one I've really enjoyed flying.   Although lately I haven't flown any helos because my T16000 went out on me.  I'm leaning towards a Virpil setup like you have.

[lwt1971 7,419]

7 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

A lot of real life pilots were part of Navigraph's last survey: "27.3% have some sort of pilot license" (page 81, last Navigraph survey).  And guess which simulator the Navigraph survey takers overwhelmingly preferred and overwhelmingly use? Yup, it was MSFS. 

For me the most telling part of that survey was how the sim platform used "most of the time" was MSFS at ~68% (66% - pc, 2% - xbox), with the second place platform at ~15% (page 40) ... and then in terms of what everyone thought were the most important flight simulator factors: #1 was "realistic aerodynamics model", followed by "realistic world graphics" (page 42)

So for the group of surveyed Navigraph users who can easily be classed as serious simmers, for whome the most important sim factors are realistic aerodynamics and realistic world visuals, the #1 sim platform is MSFS by a wide margin, by more than 4 times the next closest (not surprising though). Should be interesting to see how the 2023 survey pans out.
 

Edited July 26, 2023 by lwt1971

[dmarques69 316]

A pity im not a Heli guy, because Sergio analysis are always spot on, and my opinion on him as nothing to do we both Portuguese 😁

[OverTheEDJ 266]

3 hours ago, Mace said:

That base allows you to adjust the axis pre-tensioners, so you might try experimenting with that.

The default helos can be a little twitchy, you may want to widen your null zone, but the Cabri is the only one I've really enjoyed flying.   Although lately I haven't flown any helos because my T16000 went out on me.  I'm leaning towards a Virpil setup like you have.

Hey thanks for the feedback. I have done several adjustments with the Virpil base. I am at a good place for most of my heli flying, especially in DCS.

Were you referring to dead zone? For Helis, I do not want a dead zone, I want all movement around the center to be registered at a high resolution for those small movements, especially for landing. In fact, the Virpil base allows you to switch cams to remove the detent zone when the stick is centered, this way you can easily move around the center (very light touches, even with the finger tips) without having to apply any extra force to get out of the centered zone. Smooth glide from end to end.

So given the tension adjustments and removing the detents, I think that you will enjoy a Virpil setup. I also have their throttle and rudder hardware as well.