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Mace

FS a classic over 25 years

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Sometimes when I hear people complain about FSX, I often wonder what they would have said about FS1 and some of the later versions that many of us thought were pretty cool : http://fshistory.simflight.com/fsh/index.htmDownload the excellent video by Josef Havlik at the site (120 Meg FS History video) to see all the versions of FS in operation (the frame rates were a little higher than shown). A great compilation and very nostalgic for

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Couldn't agree more, it's amazing how far it's come in so little time relatively speaking.

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If you only play FS and have a low expectation you will be happy. When you compare it to what other studios like Crytek, Namco etc are doing, it makes FS look ancient. Things like HDR lighting are a basic standard these days. Yet after a long struggle with their own technology, MS couldn't even figure that out. On their current path, its going to take 20-30 years just to catch up to what games like Crysis can do TODAY.

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The rabbit and the tortoise wingnut? the rabbit and the tortoiseCheers WOZ

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>If you only play FS and have a low expectation you will be>happy. When you compare it to what other studios like Crytek,>Namco etc are doing, it makes FS look ancient. Things like HDR>lighting are a basic standard these days. Yet after a long>struggle with their own technology, MS couldn't even figure>that out. On their current path, its going to take 20-30 years>just to catch up to what games like Crysis can do TODAY.I don't think that Microsoft is behind in the times, find me another flight simulator that looks better that covers the entire globe. First person shooter are much easier to make as there is a much smaller area of land involved, and sight ranges are correspondingly lower at 6 feet agl than 6000 feet agl.

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Factually, we do have HDR bloom in the DX10 Preview and it is much more performant than the DX9 bloom. I did state this in my blog post, so please can we broadcast accurate data on this forum?

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I don't play these games-but from what I can tell this is still in beta?-correct me if I am wrong.Fsx has been out for a year-are you comparing something that isn't quite out yet with something that has been for a year? You know what they say about computer years-the same as a dog's....I also notice the "mimimum" specs are the computer I am using with good performance on fsx...I probably assume minimum specs for this game will perform probably like minimum specs for fsx-which I am far above for fsx-but not for your game.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Phil,PM, Core Platform. Is that a promotion or just a different role?

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My responsibilities have broadened recently, to include more than Graphics and Terrain.

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lol..... Now your trying to make a point using the minimum specs? FSX minimum specsCPU: 1.0 GhzHard Drive Space: 14000 MBDVD-ROM: 0X DVD-ROMRAM: 256 MB RAMVideo Memory: 32 MB VRAMUnbelievable. It may install but you wouldnt see 1 fps on that box.

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>Unbelievable. It may install but you wouldnt see 1 fps on that>box.*plonk*

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>If you only play FS and have a low expectation you will be>happy. When you compare it to what other studios like Crytek,>Namco etc are doing, it makes FS look ancient. Things like HDR>lighting are a basic standard these days. Yet after a long>struggle with their own technology, MS couldn't even figure>that out. On their current path, its going to take 20-30 years>just to catch up to what games like Crysis can do TODAY.You know, I have always been a bit against Tom Allensworth's moderation policy, but have accepted it as part of the rules of this house... Given the multitude on going anti MSFS posts like the above, by the above, I now wholeheartedly embrace the policy and more so, would have used it to a much greater extent, as the above post serves absolutely no purpose in this thread.In reading this post back, mine probably does not either...Oh well,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern AustraliaCheck out my 5th Around the World flight with MS FSX at http://members.iinet.com.au/~portercbp/fly...W_05/index.html

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Ok-I'll spell it out for you:1) You are comparing a game that is not even out yet to fsx that has been for 1 year, based on the pre hype from the company.2) The quotes from the website "and while these specs affect how Crysis will perform now, we have also optimized Crysis so that the game scales forward 1-2 years --we want to make sure that Crysis' gameplay, visuals and performance improves as technology does.Minimum requirements:Processor - 2.8 GHz or faster (XP) or 3.2 GHz or faster* (Vista)"Since I have a 3.2 ghz and Vista-I am fairly certain the game will crawl on my computer-or at best I would have to run it with sliders mostly to the left. I also expect it will crawl on a moderately new computer of today with all the sliders to the right. No different than fsx.Then there are the obvious differences of a world based on reality vs. modelling a fantasy one. I asked the question the other day-are you related to Wingnut? Because he was removed from avsim..I'd take the hint when other posters are hinting that Brian and I are not doing our job.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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>>If you only play FS and have a low expectation you will be>>happy. When you compare it to what other studios like>Crytek,>>Namco etc are doing, it makes FS look ancient. Things like>HDR>>lighting are a basic standard these days. Yet after a long>>struggle with their own technology, MS couldn't even figure>>that out. On their current path, its going to take 20-30>years>>just to catch up to what games like Crysis can do TODAY.>>As soon as "Crysis" comes complete, with worldwide navigational, airport, and topographical mesh data-bases; as well as the ability to use my favorite aircraft................I'll buy it! :-hah L.Adamsonedit: and after watching several high definition "Crysis" videos, thanks to a link on the FS9 forum,I'd expect the "Crysis" team to render all airports and city's, just as they appear in real life. Can't wait!!! :-jumpy

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No, the beta testers are reporting the game is already performing good on Directx9/XP.http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?p=4914003My system:Intel Pentium D 3.4Ghz, 2x2mb cacheKingston RAM 1x2Gb, 800MhzNvidia 7900GS 512MB, Core clock 600Mhz, Memory clock 800MhzWindowsXp (sp2)All drivers are up to date------------------------I run the game with 1024x768 and all settings to max with no AA. Surprisingly the game run very smooth, I think the fps are between 30-40.

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Quote:"As soon as "Crysis" comes complete, with worldwide navigational, airport, and topographical mesh data-bases; as well as the ability to use my favorite aircraft ..."I think this is a really, really basic point.The environment of Crysis looks spectacular, as anyone can readily see - and as a demonstration of what can be achieved with DX10, its out of this world. But it is what it is, and it isn't what it isn't.It is not a realistic portrayal of the planet Earth (which is what MSFS is). It's an artificial and repeating simulated landscape ... albeit a stunning one.And, it is not able to simulate flight, which for me is pretty much one of the essential requirements of a flight simulator.Programming Crysis to be a flight simulator would not work (my view) because doing so would mean removing all of the things that make the natural environment in Crysis look so beautiful.

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I've flown flight simulators even before the Sublogic days and have purchased and flown every version of Microsoft Flight Simulator including FSX. Granted, there are some shortcomings in FSX (Sunshine Skyway missing for one), but I have never seen a perfect program.Each version has been technologically above the previous version and I have enjoyed each. Having flown in real life for the past 40 years, I fly the keyboard to keep sharp on procedures.Take Flight Simulator, whatever version, for what it is. It is a simulator that costs less than a tank of fuel in a Cessna 172 yet it offers us many different aircraft, the entire world, and the ability to practice or fly any situation we desire without the risk or expense of real flight.I for one would like to commend and thank all the persons involved in the continued development of this software and intend to keep purchasing new versions as long as they are produced.My advice - If you don't like it, leave it. If you do, and have the experience, help your fellow simmers, else partake of what is offered and enjoy others hard work. All the shots at simmers and Microsoft aren't helping anyone.Thanks Phil and Aces for what you do.

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> I asked the question the other day-are you related to>Wingnut? >>Because he was removed from avsim..There are three registered "wingnut" users:Wingnutwingnut1wingnut2Coincidence?

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Oh dear not again with trying to compare FPshooter with flightsimulation. Here are some more additions to comments...1) The typical view in FS involves sight of some 60 miles in alldirections, this requires some 1000 square miles of textures withthe necessary MIP mapping and AF control. This is some orders ofmagnitude greater computer/disk/FSB requirements2) The mesh is unique for the entire world - I use 76 meter (which issome 20Gb), The landclass is unique for the world, the textures arenot unique, but depending on quality the number of textures isvery high.3) Traffic requires a radius of some 110 miles to know what to do with planes that fly away from your current point of view.4) Clouds consist of a lot of textures with translucent display, nota lot of cloud structure in that game that was given as an example. Also, the average FPshooter cannot walk through the cloud so anythat are drawn are just painted as a backdrop. (Fogging effects are standard library calls for directX and OpenGL so these arejust dealt with a very simplified texture scaling)5) Planes move much faster requiring significantly higher framerates for useful use. My son uses Oblivian, and seams to use ithappily with fps of something like 5 fps without too much complaint6) The buildings are 3D objects with textures painted on on all games,but it comes down to the problem that FS requires a lot more of themin one view, and the number of trees is huge in the 1000 square miles of view.So you cannot compare FPshooter games which are not set in realenvironment - and based on the ground, with FS. The extent of thedata is massive in FS - I have some 50Gb of FS with 200,000 filesnow. Lots of this has to be loaded and rendered in real time.Tom

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To bring things back on track...The FSHistory website that was cited at the top of the thread is run by a gentleman named Jos Grupping. Despite that the last "News" is from 2006, and the last entry is from 2005, he keeps a close watch on the site. I think it's a tremendous archive of information relating to the old MSFS. I've used it many times in my reviews, with Mr. Grupping's blessing (although he wishes to make sure that credit is given where credit is due -- he and his crew are the ones doing all of the hard research, I am just someone passing it on!). If you have specific questions or comments about the history of MSFS, you can contact him and ask them yourself.Mr. Grupping has suggested to me that he will update his site to include the most recent events concerning MSFS, but even if he doesn't, it's an amazing collection of facts, pictures, and video that does very well to document the history of one of my favourite hobbies.Jeff Shyluk,Senior Staff Reviewer, Avsim

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