New Grusch interview.

[DD_Arthur 1,091]

On 9/20/2023 at 3:45 PM, DaviiB said:

If we, as a species, had developed nuclear weapons at any point prior to 1945, we likely would have wiped ourselves out.

 Surely you have this the wrong way round?

The first Geneva Conventions were introduced in the 1860’s. The Hague Conventions in the 1890’s.

What happened to men in 1945 that made them more advanced, more moral than men in 1865?

Before 1945 the concept of total destruction of the earth existed largely in the imagination of those writers of ancient religious texts and H.G. Wells.

1945 is the year these things could be seriously contemplated as realistic possibilities. They still are and the proliferation of weapons has increased since 1945.
As to advanced civilisations coming into contact with less ‘advanced’ civilisations; I believe we should contemplate the fate of the native populations of south, central and North America, Australia, Pacific Islanders, etc. when they came into contact with Europeans.

 

[DaviiB 104]

16 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

What happened to men in 1945 that made them more advanced, more moral than men in 1865?

I couldn't say, but it sure seems like conflict has become less....vicious? ....over time. Remember when mustard gas was a thing? ...when civilian casualties were an afterthought? If you go back far enough, during times of 'conquering', entire villages and towns would be wiped out on purpose.

For the most part, we don't really do that anymore. 

 

16 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

1945 is the year these things could be seriously contemplated as realistic possibilities. They still are and the proliferation of weapons has increased since 1945.

Exactly, but my point is, we seem to have the restraint (and common sense) needed to avoid using them on a whim. I'm not convinced that restraint was present, or would have been present prior to the end of WWII.

 

16 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

As to advanced civilisations coming into contact with less ‘advanced’ civilisations; I believe we should contemplate the fate of the native populations of south, central and North America, Australia, Pacific Islanders, etc. when they came into contact with Europeans.

Again, let's not project human traits onto another civilization we know nothing about.

Also, to my point, yes, some absolutely horrible atrocities were committed in the past on a large scale. The fact that today, we are able to recognize them as-such (and discuss it openly), is a very good sign that we have matured somewhat since then, and gained a level of perspective, respect and humility that prevents us from repeating them on a wide scale.

Note: This does not mean we're perfect. Absolutely horrible acts are still committed around the world, but we are now at a place where those actions are condemned by the majority. I believe the average person (on an individual level) would rather learn to co-exist than conquer.

If anything resembling a similar evolution takes place "out there", then humans (with our egos, prejudices, fears, greed and general malice) are likely more dangerous than anyone visiting Earth.

This does rely on averages though.....and it does leave some room in the tails of the bell curve for some.....spicy outcomes. Here's hoping those folks don't find us.

DB

[DD_Arthur 1,091]

1 hour ago, DaviiB said:

I couldn't say, but it sure seems like conflict has become less....vicious? ....over time. Remember when mustard gas was a thing? ...when civilian casualties were an afterthought? If you go back far enough, during times of 'conquering', entire villages and towns would be wiped out on purpose.

For the most part, we don't really do that anymore.

Mustard gas and similar chemical weapons are still very much a thing. It was used by both sides in the Iran - Iraq war,  Saddam Hussein used it against his own citizens in the later part of the nineteen eighties, it has been used by the Syrian government against its own citizens in the last three years.

The times of 'conquering' haven't gone away. Medieval man generally refrained from mass slaughter as it was much more profitable to ransom captured enemies and putting the whole population to the sword was not only difficult in practice but meant the whole area was reduced to an unproductive waste land.

Science, technology and ideology in the twentieth century has given us not only the ability but also the justification for mass slaughter. Since 1945 we have seen acts of genocide in Indonesia, Cambodia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Rwanda, etc.

I don't see any restraint apparent,  apart from the big players where the balance of terror keeps things in check - and lets them fight things out using proxies. 

Anyway...my apologies; I'm taking things down a rabbit hole.

Bring on the aliens!😆

 

 

 

[dmwalker 612]

This week's exciting episode:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12546951/NASA-contractor-study-alien-corpses-presented-Mexicos-Congress-according-ufologist-brought-world.html 

 

[martin-w 3,258]

Quote

 

For his part, Maussan expressed concern that too much transparency too early could upset the delicate investigations which, he says, are now underway.

When asked by the DailyMail.com, Mussaun declined to identify the NASA contractor by name. 

 

 

How convenient. 😉

They were studied by medical authorities when they were first "found", a few years back, and deemed to be fake. 

[dmwalker 612]

Shocking footage of the alien autopsy just released:

https://twitter.com/forbergenews/status/1702719488611975361?s=20

Oh!

Never mind:

https://www.indiatoday.in/fact-check/story/fact-check-mexico-alien-corpse-being-cut-like-a-cake-here-are-the-facts-2437506-2023-09-19 

Edited September 26, 2023 by dmwalker

[DaviiB 104]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:13 AM, DD_Arthur said:

Mustard gas and similar chemical weapons are still very much a thing. It was used by both sides in the Iran - Iraq war,  Saddam Hussein used it against his own citizens in the later part of the nineteen eighties, it has been used by the Syrian government against its own citizens in the last three years.

The times of 'conquering' haven't gone away. Medieval man generally refrained from mass slaughter as it was much more profitable to ransom captured enemies and putting the whole population to the sword was not only difficult in practice but meant the whole area was reduced to an unproductive waste land.

Science, technology and ideology in the twentieth century has given us not only the ability but also the justification for mass slaughter. Since 1945 we have seen acts of genocide in Indonesia, Cambodia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Rwanda, etc.

I don't see any restraint apparent,  apart from the big players where the balance of terror keeps things in check - and lets them fight things out using proxies. 

Anyway...my apologies; I'm taking things down a rabbit hole.

Bring on the aliens!😆

 

Sorry for the gap. Had my head down for a while.

My overall point was that we appear to be becoming less violent (or more tolerant) as a species / civilization. That does not categorically exclude pockets of violence, and the occasional step, or steps, backwards. It also doesn't mean the entire population moves at the same time. Progress is never in a straight line.

If we focus on violence, we'll miss all of the good that's happening at the same time. Just don't expect to find it in the news.

 

On 9/23/2023 at 12:02 PM, martin-w said:

How convenient. 😉

They were studied by medical authorities when they were first "found", a few years back, and deemed to be fake. 

I would read past that part, to the bit where he talks about not wanting to disturb an (apparently) ongoing, NASA-sponsored investigation. This guy's said and done enough now, that he's either telling (what he thinks is) the truth, or he's the biggest fraud and is going to set back research on this topic by a number of years. Let's see how it plays out.

Also, are you sure that these specific "bodies" were part of the few that were studied in the past? There seems to be some confusion around that.

 

DB

[DaviiB 104]

@dmwalker @martin-w

I just heard this RE: The NASA report and press conference last week. ..... NASA stated that the have found no evidence of Extra Terrestrial origin for UAPs.

Did you know that their study only looked at peer-reviewed scientific literature on the topic? (of which there is basically none).

Mainstream science has all but refused to look at this topic, and NASA is using this as their baseline. One would think the American public would be paying them to conduct their own study of available data and evidence. 

DB

[martin-w 3,258]

57 minutes ago, DaviiB said:

Also, are you sure that these specific "bodies" were part of the few that were studied in the past?

 

From what I've read, yes, same alleged alien bodies. Although yes, there dies seem to be confusion regarding this. 

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/09/20/mexicos-controversial-alien-bodies-undergo-lab-tests

 

[martin-w 3,258]

51 minutes ago, DaviiB said:

@dmwalker @martin-w

I just heard this RE: The NASA report and press conference last week. ..... NASA stated that the have found no evidence of Extra Terrestrial origin for UAPs.

Did you know that their study only looked at peer-reviewed scientific literature on the topic? (of which there is basically none).

Mainstream science has all but refused to look at this topic, and NASA is using this as their baseline. One would think the American public would be paying them to conduct their own study of available data and evidence. 

DB

 

 

The NASA "study" is a joke to be honest. I'm paying no attention to it. I recall that when this was initially announced the funding was a pittance, $100,000, pointless. 

The article below does say they would be looking at their own data and outside originations data. 

 

 

Quote

 

In early June, spurred by a series of highly publicized UFO sightings documented by U.S. military personnel, NASA announced that it was initiating a modest study of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs). For nearly a year—and on a relatively meager total budget of circa $100,000—eight to 12 experts will work on the UAP Independent Study. Its goal is to identify data—information that has already been gathered, or that could be in the future, from NASA and outside organizations—and analysis techniques that might advance the scientific understanding of UAPs. Both NASA and the scientist leading the study, Princeton University astrophysicist and Simons Foundation president David Spergel, declined to comment for this story.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasa-rsquo-s-ufo-study-isn-rsquo-t-really-looking-for-space-aliens/

[dmwalker 612]

12 hours ago, martin-w said:

Although yes, there dies seem to be confusion regarding this. 

Possibly adding to the confusion, Cassandra Garrison of Reuters spoke to Jaime Maussan about his research:

“He told me that the scientific analysis and data studies that he's been presenting this entire week actually were done on a different body that remains in Peru and the two bodies that he presented here in Mexico, he's not done scientific analysis on, saying that he didn't want to damage the specimens. And I think that could potentially change the conversation but we had scientist independently review the results who told us that they do not represent anything out of the ordinary and certainly indicate normal life on Earth.”

[martin-w 3,258]

It's all got way too confusing for me, to be honest. Despite the confusion though I rate the chances of them being alien bodies as close to zero.

Carbon dating is one of the eyebrow raisers, as you can't use carbon dating to date an "alien" biology. the scale we use for carbon dating is only applicable to this planet. A  different scale would apply on another world, so you would have to know the planet the alien came from and understand the planets composition. 

 

 

[ericapo 0]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:45 PM, martin-w said:

From what I've read, yes, same alleged alien bodies. Although yes, there dies seem to be confusion regarding this. 

https://www.euronews.com/next/2023/09/20/mexicos-controversial-alien-bodies-undergo-lab-tests bangladesh-bank.org

 

I am curious to see what the results of the lab tests are. I hope that they will shed some light on this mystery.

[martin-w 3,258]

Check out Encounters on Netflix.

Episode one is the fascinating story of Broad Haven The UK's biggest mass sighting. 

Second episode is the Zimbabwe school.

Good series, worth watching.

Edited September 29, 2023 by martin-w

[dmwalker 612]

10 hours ago, martin-w said:

Carbon dating is one of the eyebrow raisers, as you can't use carbon dating to date an "alien" biology

On the bright side, at least it would imply that the biology is carbon based. Too bad it's all fake. I have the feeling that, somehow, the proposed DNA testing will never take place.

I also have the feeling that Grusch will never be allowed to get his secure location to reveal his classified evidence. I am starting to wonder if the second whistleblower is a copycat seeking publicity.