34 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

I think we are already at that point:

Dishonest people are just as much if not more of a threat to democracy than any AI algorithm.

AI algorithms could certainly be used by nefarious and deceitful people to better disseminate false information, but in the end it is human beings who are liars and corrupt people, not software.

It has already been demonstrated over the past several years that false narratives, fake "facts", and completely made up stories can be developed and then distributed across thousands of internet platforms and throughout the often complicit media, all without some autonomous AI program doing it alone.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to find the "truth" out there.  The best way is through direct contact and conversation with actual people, and even then you might get differing versions of events and/or outright lies.

The powers that be know this and leverage their money and power in order to broadly disseminate propaganda.  Yes, AI can help them with this hateful effort to fool and manipulate the little people.

Dave

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

This is a one-time, necessary response to Martin's propaganda:

 

My DATA is re worldwide sales. Your "opinions" seem to be just US. And some of your articles refer to sales still rising. 🙄 

GLOBAL sales up 49%. 

https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/global-ev-sales-h1-2023

https://abrbuzz.co.za/index.php/mobility/19069-global-electric-car-sales-still-booming-revenues-to-jump-by-20-and-hit-462b-in-2023

 

 

Edited December 6, 20232 yr by martin-w

2 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

I note that in the Amazon bookstore, it's now a thing' to slap on a disclaimer that no part of a given novel has been written by AI.......

I noted the disclaimers recently with a bit of a quirked eyebrow, but it seems to be an actual growing issue.

That is one issue cropping up with AI, though I think it's getting a bit off the original quantum computing topic.

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

Your "opinions" seem to be just US

The articles speak for themselves, and there are many more.  I won't post links but folks can do their own research.

You are quoting *sales* percentage increases.  This is almost meaningless.  If I sell 1000 widgets one year, but the next year I sell 1500, I can say "behold! my sales increased 50%!".  However, if there are already 100 million widgets out there, my 50% increase means next to nothing in the grand scheme of things.  It is easy to get fooled by deceptive statistics and graphs.  There are smart, deceitful people working for various companies, govts., wealthy elites, and special interest groups who create these deceptive graphs and statistics, and most people with no experience or education in how to analyze data are fooled by them.

Dave

I'll tell you something that I see happening with AI in the near future:

There are already AI generated images that look exactly like a real person.  AI will be able to analyze a real person, their voices, movements, language, and other attributes, and then these images can be animated. Any actors, personalities, and TV anchors can then be replaced by these AI-generated images - and they will be as one thinks of the cost of employing these overpaid folks.  The corporate masters who control the media can program the AI to deliver whatever messages they wish.

Dave

 

 

10 hours ago, dave2013 said:

The articles speak for themselves

 

Exactly. 😁 

 

Your second link contained a graph demonstrating a rapid upward trend. And the article was just about car makers having even greater expectations that weren't met.

Your third link said, and I quote... "Electric vehicle sales are still growing strongly". 

Your fourth link contained no data, just an opinion.

Your fifth link was behind a paywall

Looks like all of your articles were for the US, not global. And none of your articles suggested that sales had "fallen off a cliff" as you claimed. All of your links are non-clickable which is unusual for you. 😁

Looks like even in the US it was record sales in 2023.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q3-2023-ev-sales/

Quote

Electric vehicle (EV) sales volumes set another record in Q3, as total sales of battery-powered vehicles jumped past 300,000 for the first time in the U.S. market.

 

Does the graph below, and  a vast number of other available look like, and I quote,  "falling off a cliff? No!

Electric Vehicle Sales in US Hit the Accelerator Pedal — Even Beyond California

 

 

 

.. 

 

 

 

Chart: EV sales on pace to break 1 million in US this year

Edited December 7, 20232 yr by martin-w

Looks like, its not just the US, Europe is also spending billions on quantum computers.

 

Quote

Both private and public funding for European quantum technologies has grown notably over the last few years. In 2021, private funding to quantum startups increased by 2.5x compared to 2020, and by 8x compared to 2019. Public funding has grown as well, with the EU planning to invest $7.2 billion (€6.8 billion) in quantum computing projects by 2025.

 

https://thenextweb.com/news/europes-throwing-billions-at-quantum-computers-will-it-pay-off

 

https://time.com/6249784/quantum-computing-revolution/

 

Quote

Quantum Computers Could Solve Countless Problems—And Create a Lot of New Ones

 

They do still need to work out things like error correcting first, which is slowly happening.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/12/quantum-computer-performs-error-resistant-operations-with-logical-qubits/

12 hours ago, martin-w said:

Does the graph below, and  a vast number of other available look like, and I quote,  "falling off a cliff? No!

Here's another one for you, from CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/20/cars/electric-cars-sales-gas-cars-dg/index.html

BTW, most of the EV sales were in California and other West coast States - not exactly representative of most of the USA.

The graph from the US Energy Information Administration shows that EV sales will peak out at about 20-25% of total market share through the year 2050.  Gasoline and diesel vehicles will remain by far the majority.

I don't mention Europe because of the govt. policies which are forcing people to make the switch over the next 10 years.  California is doing this as well so I don't even consider that State any more.  It's hard to celebrate increased sales of something when one is forced to buy it.

I'll happily stick with my 6.6L diesel for many years to come.😁

Dave

 

Edited December 7, 20232 yr by dave2013

11 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Here's another one for you, from CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/20/cars/electric-cars-sales-gas-cars-dg/index.html

 

 

And the actual headline was... Electric cars are breaking sales records. So not "falling off a cliff" 🙄

It even gave you a graph demonstrating a precipitous increase. And even stated... "Not only is that more than 48% higher than last year, it’s more EVs than were sold in all of 2019."

Nothing above is, as you claimed, "falling off a cliff". 

 

11 hours ago, dave2013 said:

BTW, most of the EV sales were in California and other West coast States - not exactly representative of most of the USA

 

As the headline for the article stated... "Electric Vehicle Sales in US Hit the Accelerator Pedal — Even Beyond California"     But again, its not the US that interests me, its globally, and absolutely no way have sales fallen off a cliff as you wrongly stated. Global figures are up, substantially. 

 

11 hours ago, dave2013 said:

The graph from the US Energy Information Administration shows that EV sales will peak out at about 20-25% of total market share through the year 2050.  Gasoline and diesel vehicles will remain by far the majority.

 

That's a prediction, for the US not global. What the US does is always a mystery, but  globally I would dispute that given the technology that's pretty much here now, like sodium ion that's just gone into production, and a number of other technologies that will be here well before 2050. But again.... that's nothing to do with you wrongly claiming that sales had fallen off a cliff. 

 

12 hours ago, dave2013 said:

I'll happily stick with my 6.6L diesel for many years to come.

 

Why do you need a 6.6 litre gas guzzler? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a smaller engine and pay less for fuel? 

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

Why do you need a 6.6 litre gas guzzler? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a smaller engine and pay less for fuel? 

We live in a 40ft fifth wheel RV, about 400 sq ft(37 sq m) total area.  I need a powerful truck to tow the thing, which is actually not too often as we stay places for months at a time.  Our actual home most of the time is in Tennessee.

We sold our 1500 sq ft house and opted for this - much less to heat and cool and maintain than a house, plus you can move around to different places.  I work part-time and can do everything remotely so it was an option for us.

We are true downsizers and minimalists, which is ironically what the powers that be want to force everyone to do eventually, but the point is that we *chose* to do it without being forced to by a corrupt govt.

We'll eventually sell the RV and get a small house, like 900-1000 sq ft(~90sq m), but the fact remains that we will live much more frugally and "lightly" than the majority of Americans with their 2000+ sq ft(185+ sq m) 4 bedroom 2+ bath houses which most don't really need.

Believe it or not we are conservationists who believe that people should live lightly and consume as little as possible.  My beef with the powers that be pushing their this or that crisis nonsense and trying to force the little people to bear the brunt of their policies is that they are hypocrites and greedy liars, and I don't want them telling me or anybody else how to live.

EVs are fine and people should have the choice to buy them, just as they should be able to choose to buy a hybrid, gasoline, or diesel vehicle.

There are videos all over Youtube about car dealers having trouble selling their EVs.  If it were one or two videos I might be skeptical, but there are many.  Without thousands of dollars in govt. subsidies to the automakers and buyers the sales would be even lower.

Ford has lost billions on its EVs and has canceled a 12 billion EV plant.

Yes, sales are up, but they are slowing and will peak out at <25% of total sales unless EVs get a lot cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient vis-a-vis range and charging.  Most people just don't want them.

Dave

10 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

There are videos all over Youtube about car dealers having trouble selling their EVs.

 

And yet the figures clearly show a significant upward trend, not falling off a cliff.  

 

11 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Ford has lost billions on its EVs and has canceled a 12 billion EV plant

 

Some of the legacy car manufactures are years behind. Especially Toyota, who totally screwed up their strategy. 

 

13 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Yes, sales are up, but they are slowing and will peak out at <25% of total sales unless EVs get a lot cheaper, more reliable, and more convenient vis-a-vis range and charging. 

 

That's a prediction. Can't find the article you were referring to. Yes, EV's are getting  a lot cheaper. Model 3 is 40K Below the average US price of 48K. Then we have models like the MG, at £28K, very nice car.  Quite a few small, lower range  EV's at 20K. BYD Dolphin is  a nice small EV at £25K. MG ZS is a lovely car at £30K, 300 mile range, reasonable size. Lots of EV's are well  under 40K now. It's only luxury EV's that are big bucks. 300 mile range plus is common now and charging in Europe is very good. I do realize that you lack sufficient charging in the US though. Most charge at home while they sleep of course. The newer LFP batteries are making a big difference in terms of cost of course.

I do appreciate of course that for some in the US, that don't have charging facilities and cover a very significant mileage per trip, its less than optimal. 

 

25 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

Most people just don't want them.

 

 And yet sales, globally, are rising precipitously. Not falling off a cliff. And most that buy them, don't switch back. I've driven a Jag EV, Model Y and Model X. Only briefly but I can see why people love them. Easy to drive, handle great and thrilling torque. No smelly petrol stations to visit, charge at home while we sleep. 

 https://www.axios.com/2022/10/05/ev-adoption-loyalty-electric-cars

34 minutes ago, dave2013 said:

We live in a 40ft fifth wheel RV, about 400 sq ft(37 sq m) total area.  I need a powerful truck to tow the thing, which is actually not too often as we stay places for months at a time.  Our actual home most of the time is in Tennessee.

We sold our 1500 sq ft house and opted for this - much less to heat and cool and maintain than a house, plus you can move around to different places.  I work part-time and can do everything remotely so it was an option for us.

 

I'm betting you have stayed in some nice locations. Not how Id like to live, but I can see the appeal. 

Meanwhile:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03943-1#:~:text=Platforms based on molecules manipulated,Davide Castelvecchi

12 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Meanwhile:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03943-1#:~:text=Platforms based on molecules manipulated,Davide Castelvecchi

 

You know what, there's bad stuff happening in the world but we live in fascinating times. I find it interesting that the the technology we discuss relies on quantum entanglement, something we don't really understand.

Quantum computers, nanotechnology, genetic manipulation with Crispr, fusion, reusable spacecraft and revolutionary propulsion like Reaction Engines SABRE technology. There's plenty of stuff to keep us interested.