ATR 42/72 -600 updated v. 1.0.36

[mryan75 281]

11 hours ago, regis9 said:

I’ve always found the VNAV climb in this aircraft really lethargic (bad in the -42, worse in the -72).

Maybe it’s user error, but with PWR MGT set to climb, throttles in notch, condition auto, I’m only getting 900 fpm in the high teen flight levels.  The TQ% is in the high 60’s low 70’s so it would seem there’s a lot more power not being commanded.

Is this how it’s supposed to be or am I doing something wrong?

That sounds about right. This plane generally flies in the mid- to high-teens for that reason. Service ceiling is 25. Getting it to 22 or 23 is a real struggle. 

[Fiorentoni 4,366]

5 minutes ago, mryan75 said:

I’m starting from hotel mode. I’m talking about disengaging the prop brake. I start my flights from a turnaround state with the engine already in hotel mode. 

Then we are talking about two different things... the bug people were talking about was when engaging the prop break. You could have saved us quite some time if you would have read correctly about what we were talking about. I mean people were repeatedly talking about engaging the prop break and it doesn't work etc. and you were replying all the time "But that's exactly what I'm doing and it works".

[mryan75 281]

6 hours ago, ATRguy said:

You are now in Hotel Mode and can load/unload passengers.  IRL, fueling the 72 is not allowed in Hotel Mode, but the 42 it is.  

Thanks so much for sharing the knowledge! This must be a really fun airplane to fly. 

My question is, if I am in Hotel mode, what is the proper way of disengaging Hotel and starting the number 1 engine. I always start in this “turnaround” state in the 72. I simply click Hotel Mode in the EFB and start my flights from there. I set up the avionics and the flight plan, etc, and then run the before propeller rotation checklist. What I’d like to know is again, the proper way of disengaging Hotel and starting the no. 1 engine. 

Thanks again for the time and the knowledge!

[mryan75 281]

21 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Then we are talking about two different things... the bug people were talking about was when engaging the prop break. You could have saved us quite some time if you would have read correctly about what we were talking about. I mean people were repeatedly talking about engaging the prop break and it doesn't work etc. and you were replying all the time "But that's exactly what I'm doing and it works".

Not only was my first reply to someone (post 3) who was having problems disengaging the prop brake, I said in my reply “From Hotel mode…” and then proceeded to explain how I disengage the prop brake.

So 🤷‍♂️

Edited January 20 by mryan75

[regis9 4,039]

Thanks for the comments on the sluggish climb, good to know it’s accurate at least.

On the prop brake, I do think there’s still some bugs lurking in there, one flight I can engage and disengage it no problem, then last night using the exact same procedures it got stuck on and I had to restart the flight.  I’ve had that happen a Few times.

Edited January 20 by regis9

[ATRguy 91]

1 hour ago, mryan75 said:

Thanks so much for sharing the knowledge! This must be a really fun airplane to fly. 

My question is, if I am in Hotel mode, what is the proper way of disengaging Hotel and starting the number 1 engine. I always start in this “turnaround” state in the 72. I simply click Hotel Mode in the EFB and start my flights from there. I set up the avionics and the flight plan, etc, and then run the before propeller rotation checklist. What I’d like to know is again, the proper way of disengaging Hotel and starting the no. 1 engine. 

Thanks again for the time and the knowledge!

If you’re in Hotel Mode, for a turnaround, then I assume you don’t have a GPU plugged in. 
 

You would start engine one normally, and then we put the condition lever on that engine to Auto to power the AC Wild system (and therefore, the hydraulic pumps).  IRL, you’d signal the marshaller that you’re “starting #2” because the propeller will begin rotating and you want it to be clear.  Then push the AUX PUMP button (because why not, it doesn’t cost you anything), make sure the READY light is on, then disengage the prop brake.  Wait 15 seconds after disengagement, then move the #2 Condition lever to AUTO.  
 

After Start flow/checklist comes after that.  Then you should be ready for taxi.   

[ATRguy 91]

28 minutes ago, regis9 said:

Thanks for the comments on the sluggish climb, go to know it’s accurate at least.

On the prop brake, I do think there’s still some bugs lurking in there, one flight I can engage and disengage it no problem, then last night using the exact same procedures it got stuck on and I had to restart the flight.  I’ve had that happen a Few times.

I haven’t tried the new update yet, I’m actually at Sim for the week right now, so I’ll get it a go when I get home! 

[mryan75 281]

1 hour ago, ATRguy said:

If you’re in Hotel Mode, for a turnaround, then I assume you don’t have a GPU plugged in. 
 

You would start engine one normally, and then we put the condition lever on that engine to Auto to power the AC Wild system (and therefore, the hydraulic pumps).  IRL, you’d signal the marshaller that you’re “starting #2” because the propeller will begin rotating and you want it to be clear.  Then push the AUX PUMP button (because why not, it doesn’t cost you anything), make sure the READY light is on, then disengage the prop brake.  Wait 15 seconds after disengagement, then move the #2 Condition lever to AUTO.  
 

After Start flow/checklist comes after that.  Then you should be ready for taxi.   

What’s weird with the sim is that when you select Hotel mode in the EFB as your starting state, it automatically selects the GPU. Presumably there’s no reason why you would want engine 2 in Hotel mode and be plugged into ground power, and what you’ve said here confirms that. I’ve always wondered. 

Extremely grateful for your time and knowledge, thank you!

Edited January 20 by mryan75

[ATRguy 91]

1 hour ago, mryan75 said:

What’s weird with the sim is that when you select Hotel mode in the EFB as your starting state, it automatically selects the GPU. Presumably there’s no reason why you would want engine 2 in Hotel mode and be plugged into ground power, and what you’ve said here confirms that. I’ve always wondered. 

Extremely grateful for your time and knowledge, thank you!

I would think it’s just operator dependent.  We don’t have GPUs at most of our stations, so when it’s cold out, engine #2 is started in the morning and runs all day long.  
 

At my previous company, we would have GPUs everywhere, so we rarely used Hotel Mode.  Basically only on the deice pad.  So with a GPU we would just start both engines normally and then disconnect the GPU before unfeathering the props. 

[Adamski_NZ 967]

6 hours ago, regis9 said:

On the prop brake, I do think there’s still some bugs lurking in there, one flight I can engage and disengage it no problem, then last night using the exact same procedures it got stuck on and I had to restart the flight.  I’ve had that happen a Few times.

I'm having problems with the A/P constantly disengaging (sepearate thread) - and am finding similar issues: I don't think the ATR initialises fully (and consistently) between flights/sessions.

[ATRguy 91]

21 minutes ago, Adamski_NZ said:

I'm having problems with the A/P constantly disengaging (sepearate thread) - and am finding similar issues: I don't think the ATR initialises fully (and consistently) between flights/sessions.

Is the aircraft in trim before you engage the AP? 

[Adamski_NZ 967]

3 hours ago, ATRguy said:

Is the aircraft in trim before you engage the AP? 

Thanks! Usually - yes. I find I often have to put in some right aileron - which would indicate that the payload (or fuel) isn't balanced <?> ... though I can't see anything out of order there. I've tried it with fuel crossfeed enabled, but no difference.

If I engage A/P and make note of the elevator trim and then add that value manually before re-engaging, I still get disconnects.

[ATRguy 91]

4 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

Thanks! Usually - yes. I find I often have to put in some right aileron - which would indicate that the payload (or fuel) isn't balanced <?> ... though I can't see anything out of order there. I've tried it with fuel crossfeed enabled, but no difference.

If I engage A/P and make note of the elevator trim and then add that value manually before re-engaging, I still get disconnects.

Try rudder trim.  We rarely use aileron trim in the real thing; usually only if the plane is rigged a bit funny.  Rudder trim is your friend in the ATR.  Always Trimming Rudder.  (And Always Try Rebooting when things go wrong haha)

I think the ADU will say stuff like AILERON MISTRIM if it’s out of trim; it’s a bit misleading because it wants rudder trim. 
 

All that being said, it might be a control setup issue in the sim, I’ve never seen that on my setup…

[Adamski_NZ 967]

9 hours ago, ATRguy said:

Is the aircraft in trim before you engage the AP? 

UPDATE: I think you've identified the cause (yay - thanks!). I did two things:

1) Increased the tolerance for the throttle "notch".

2) After take off, I settled everything down (in level flight) - applying elevator and aileron trim ... engaged the A/P and started the climb.

2nd test flight without problems - so far so good!!!

[martinboehme 526]

8 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

Usually - yes. I find I often have to put in some right aileron - which would indicate that the payload (or fuel) isn't balanced <?>

The reason you need to trim is because both props rotate clockwise (as seen from behind), causing a left turning tendency.

2 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

After take off, I settled everything down (in level flight) - applying elevator and aileron trim ...

As @ATRguy notes above, you should be using rudder trim, not aileron trim.