Idea for AutoScaleVR Tool

[Kassu62 30]

I just get idea how to fix the annoying VR scale bug by using external application.

It would work like AutoFPS https://github.com/ResetXPDR/MSFS2020_AutoFPS/releases/tag/v0.4.0. AutoFPS modifies MSFS memory to change LOD values.

In my proposal similar program reads the plane type via SimConnect and changes the VFR Scale value automatically for each plane. The normalized scale values would be stored into config file. Config file comes with the tool, but it can be modified by the users.

The only user setting is to set the ‘basic’ scale or the IPD value which is the right way to do this. I don’t know what is the MSFS’s ‘standard’ IPD value, but all planes scale should use that (normalized) value.

The program would modify VR Scale value which is calculated like this PLANE_SCALE x USER_PERSONAL_SCALE.

After that all cockpits are in right scale automatically!

[Donka 645]

This is something I reached out to SonicViz, the author of the Aircraft Manager application to see if he could accommodate but he didn't think there was the demand for it. I would love for something like this as there are some aircraft that need a tweak to get things in the correct scale.

[Daube 353]

Sorry,  what is this "VR scale bug" you are we talking about here?

I'm a VR user since quite a long time and I've never heard of it? I know about the "world scale" setting that should be adjusted to match your ipd, and i also know some planes are not modeled correctly, resulting in incorrect size/ scale of their cockpits. But you mention a "bug" so I suppose you are referring to a totally different issue, right? 

[Donka 645]

8 minutes ago, Daube said:

Sorry,  what is this "VR scale bug" you are we talking about here?

I'm a VR user since quite a long time and I've never heard of it? I know about the "world scale" setting that should be adjusted to match your ipd, and i also know some planes are not modeled correctly, resulting in incorrect size/ scale of their cockpits. But you mention a "bug" so I suppose you are referring to a totally different issue, right? 

I believe they are referring to the World Scale option in VR and how some aircraft to not scale correctly in VR.

[Daube 353]

But isn't the fact that some aircraft is not scaled correctly is not really a bug, but more like a 3D modeling issue ?

Also, when you adjust the VR world scale to adjust the size of a specific cockpit, aren't you making everything else around you become the wrong scale ?

[Kassu62 30]

I am quite sure that the plane scales are are correct, but there is weird zooming problem. It is easier to design planes in right scale than in wrong scale. The parts fits together. The C152 model feels tiny. Asobo is not made tiny instruments for it. The plane size is correct, but it looks tiny from the pilot viewing point.

[Daube 353]

Well, the C152 cockpit is tiny in real life. I have been using that plane quite a lot (with the JPL mod of course) and the cockpit looks quite right in VR, especially when the copilot is seating next to me, which helps getting the sense of "distance".

For a long while I thought the DC-3 was incorrectly modelled, with a too tiny cockpit. But this was before I adjusted the world scale to fit my IPD, and also I had made some edits or I was using some outdated mod (no idea...) which somehow made things worse. I had tried to make the copilot appear in the cockpit for a long time but I'm just not good at editing these lod files 😄 After reinstalling the plane clean, it looks right finally.

[Kassu62 30]

1 hour ago, Daube said:

But isn't the fact that some aircraft is not scaled correctly is not really a bug, but more like a 3D modeling issue ?

Also, when you adjust the VR world scale to adjust the size of a specific cockpit, aren't you making everything else around you become the wrong scale ?

If there is ’hidden’ zoom 77% and you scale it with 130% the scale is 100%. Before that the world and plane scales were wrong. If you park C152 and C172 side by side, you can see that both planes are in same scale.

With my personal IPD the 'standard' World Scale is between 110...115% and with C152 I use something like 125...130%. I have 3D-printer true size Spitfire panel as a reference, and I use with it 115% setting. It depends on you IPD which plane feels right. In your case it is C152.

Edited February 27 by Kassu62

[Daube 353]

1 hour ago, Kassu62 said:

If there is ’hidden’ zoom 77% and you scale it with 130% the scale is 100%.

Where is that hidden zoom specified ? In the plane parameters ?

If so, the surrounding world should look at different scale depending on which plane we use. I don't get that impression though ?

[Kassu62 30]

31 minutes ago, Daube said:

Where is that hidden zoom specified ? In the plane parameters ?

If so, the surrounding world should look at different scale depending on which plane we use. I don't get that impression though ?

My theory is that there is unintended zoom effect in VR viewing point settings which is a bug. In normal mode you could adjust the zoom, but not in VR.

The human eye works so that the far object sizes are relative to its surround objects. Let's think the moon, the moon near the horizon looks huge. That is why you do not get impression of the wrong sized world. Your brains tells that everything is fine.

[Daube 353]

I get what you mean, but if the scale would be incorrect, then the distance would be incorrect too. For example, something would look closer or more far away than it really is.

Also the brain does indeed judge the distances partly from the surrounding objects, but it's also the IPD setting that plays the major role in the perception of sizes and distances. In the C152 things do look correct scale and distance. I can touch the passenger door, and if I use my controllers to make my hand position visible, it matches the position and distance of my arm. Same goes with other planes I tried.

I think the best thing would be to choose some example planes in which the problem is the most obvious. Do you have any examples ? I don't have many addons in my hangar but maybe some of the default planes ? 

 

[Gerwil 177]

Imho, it's just how things work in VR. Everything, near or far, is viewed with a farsighted focus. I found that the closer things get, the smaller they seem, and this even applies to watching 3D movies in VR. In MSFS, sitting in the backseat of the FSR500, the G1000 screens and yoke look big, but when I switch back to the pilot seat they suddenly seem very small. I don't think much can be done about it, unfortunately.

[Kassu62 30]

17 hours ago, Gerwil said:

Imho, it's just how things work in VR. Everything, near or far, is viewed with a farsighted focus. I found that the closer things get, the smaller they seem, and this even applies to watching 3D movies in VR. In MSFS, sitting in the backseat of the FSR500, the G1000 screens and yoke look big, but when I switch back to the pilot seat they suddenly seem very small. I don't think much can be done about it, unfortunately.

My friend who plays DCS said that scale problem is only in MSFS. Anyway, without the scale adjustments cockpits does not look right in MSFS.

Yes, everything is viewed with a farsighted focus, but it should not change the object size.

When the viewed object is close the eyes are more cross viewing than for distant objects. Your brains get object distance from that angle (that is why the rendering IPD must be right) and the maximum 3D-measure distance is less than 10 m.

[Skywolf 992]

This would be an awesome tool.

Yeah, the scale is off in my planes.  I have set to 105 and it is so much better - For example, I am in Bonanza, and seats are way to tiny in Scale 100.  

In XP12 VR, I do get fantastic sense of VR scale in the plane models.

[YoYo 374]

On 2/27/2024 at 10:39 AM, Kassu62 said:

I just get idea how to fix the annoying VR scale bug by using external application.

It would work like AutoFPS https://github.com/ResetXPDR/MSFS2020_AutoFPS/releases/tag/v0.4.0. AutoFPS modifies MSFS memory to change LOD values.

In my proposal similar program reads the plane type via SimConnect and changes the VFR Scale value automatically for each plane. The normalized scale values would be stored into config file. Config file comes with the tool, but it can be modified by the users.

The only user setting is to set the ‘basic’ scale or the IPD value which is the right way to do this. I don’t know what is the MSFS’s ‘standard’ IPD value, but all planes scale should use that (normalized) value.

The program would modify VR Scale value which is calculated like this PLANE_SCALE x USER_PERSONAL_SCALE.

After that all cockpits are in right scale automatically!

Very good idea! Im using 115% but some addons are ok, some not.

Its an issue done by scale of inside by developer mostly.

Edited February 29 by YoYo