MSFS - the significance of TLOD

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

As many already know very well, different LOD settings matter. But changing them "on the fly" has until recently not been possible. AutoFPS enables this by dynamically changing TLOD+OLOD, in order to maintain a target FPS. With the right settings in the app, and the right hardware, it is possible to get higher than default TLOD + OLOD. Default is limited to TLOD max 400 and OLOD max 200. And remember:

TLOD has a huge impact on CPU load (and probably VRAM), OLOD to a much lesser extent.  

As I've spent quite some time with this excellent app, I've been able to experiment a great deal with different settings. I'll take this opportunity to demonstrate different TLODs in different situations. TLOD is important as it relates to the terrain draw distance - how far in the distance (both horizontal and vertical) that terrain textures are being fully rendered. On the other hand OLOD influences object draw distance (trees, buildings etc). 

High TLODs won't matter much at low altitude or on the ground, as one can not see very far into the distance anyway. Conversely, high OLODs won't matter much at high altitudes, as objects are too far away anyway to matter much.  

How does high TLODs affect performance, I'm sure many people are wondering. This depends highly on hardware, especially the CPU. I have a high-end system and can run relatively high TLODs without having a significant performance impact.  

Sometimes e.g. when doing scenic flights in GA aircraft, I'm willing to sacrifice performance for terrain detail. I'll show two examples:

Lofoten Islands, Norway at 11,000ft. TLOD 1400 OLOD 20 and FPS 50:

New York City at 3000ft. TLOD 600 OLOD 1000 and FPS 80:

I'll demonstrate the IMHO quite significant difference of different TLODs in various common situations:

• Runway detail
• Final approach
• Overflying a photogrammetry city at low altitude
• Looking at mountains from low altitude
• Looking at mountains from high altitude

To obtain the highest TLODs in the following images, I had to reduce my target FPS. So the highest TLODs shown are mostly for demonstration purposes.

Runway detail

TLOD 50:

TLOD 400:

Final approach

TLOD 50:

TLOD 400:

Overflying a photogrammetry city at low altitude

TLOD 50:

TLOD 450:

Looking at mountains from low altitude

TLOD 400:

TLOD 600:

Looking at mountains from high altitude

TLOD 400:

TLOD 975:

To easier see the difference, click on the images and use the arrow keys on the keyboard to switch between them. 

Edited March 16 by Cpt_Piett

[FalconAF 213]

This is exactly the type of "documentation" I was referring about when I was discussing "Teach from the Known to the Unknown" in the AutoFPS thread.  First, your narrative explanation defines what the acronyms on the GUI mean relative to the actual settings in the MSFS Graphics settings sliders, then there are actual example pictures from the sim that show how and when to use them (and the results) for different flying scenarios and the "wants" the user wants to achieve at the time.

If you could make the post above into a PDF document someone could download, I'm sure it would be very beneficial for many, many new (and even current) users of the application.  Maybe even get @Reset to link the PDF as an additional recommended download to enhance the Readme file download information.

Great explanations!  👍

Edited March 16 by FalconAF

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

47 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

This is exactly the type of "documentation" I was referring about when I was discussing "Teach from the Known to the Unknown" in the AutoFPS thread.

Thank you so much for your positive feedback, much appreciated! It seems that we have quite similar viewpoints. One aspect of my work that I find deeply meaningful is mentoring novice colleagues. 

I got the epiphany today as I was looking at the A320 from above the runway using drone cam in order to judge my landing distance. I realized the runway was very blurry, which became my inspiration for creating this post. 

47 minutes ago, FalconAF said:

f you could make the post above into a PDF document someone could download, I'm sure it would be very beneficial for many, many new (and even current) users of the application.  Maybe even get @Reset to link the PDF as an additional recommended download to enhance the Readme file download information.

That does seem like a very good idea, which I'm more than happy to do! Anything to assist as many fellow enthusiasts as possible to get the very best simming experience using Reset's apps. As we both know, AutoFPS has opened up a whole new world of possibilities that hitherto has not been possible. 

I might need some help creating a PDF though as that is something I've never done before 🙂

Edited March 16 by Cpt_Piett

[John F 2,427]

Extremely clear demonstration that gives me the insight to keep tweaking. Really appreciate the effort you've put into this. A real eye-opener!

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

19 minutes ago, John F said:

Extremely clear demonstration that gives me the insight to keep tweaking. Really appreciate the effort you've put into this. A real eye-opener!

Thanks so much!

AutoFPS gives almost endless tweaking opportunities. While it's primary goal is to keep FPS stable during all stages of flight, I also find it immensely useful for setting above-default TLODs, especially with scenic GA flights. The highest I've been so far is TLOD 1800, which I could only manage in cockpit view in order to get reasonable FPS 😅

So for GA enthusiasts: I recommend visiting some remote parts of our planet and crank up TLOD as high as possible. My favourite places for doing this are areas with improved mesh: 

• My own country Norway of course! (WU Nordics)
• Iceland (Orxb mesh probably redundant w/ WU XV Nordics & Greenland)
• The European Alps (several WU's)
• New Zealand Southern Alps (Orbx mesh redundant with WU XII I believe)
• Alaska w/ Orbx mesh
• The Andes region of South America w/ Orbx mesh (heads-up: don't take the Cessna 172 to SLLP La Paz, Bolivia)
• and of course Himalaya - again w/ Orbx mesh! 😄 

[P_7878 6,641]

Piett: I know you've been diligently working on trial and error of this mechanism...and it clearly and convincingly shows in your pictures above...Very nice examples here...!

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

21 minutes ago, P_7878 said:

Piett: I know you've been diligently working on trial and error of this mechanism...and it clearly and convincingly shows in your pictures above...Very nice examples here...!

Thanks, I'm glad to hear that!

I'm in the process of preparing a guide to AutoFPS based on what I wrote in the original post. I intend to keep the guide as succinct and easy to read as possible, explaining key concepts needed to get started with the app. 

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

A few more photos to demonstrate how impactful high LODs can be. 

Fenix A320  almost ready for departure from ENAL Ålesund in near gale force winds:

Initial climbout:

Overflying the magnificent Sunnmøre Alps:

Fun fact: As I live nearby, I've been to one of the summits in the picture. Having a very strong fear of heights it was mixed of awe and pure terror!

Settings:

Edited March 17 by Cpt_Piett

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

Just finished a breathtaking approach into Rio's Santos Dumont. Flying past Cristo Redentor at 5,500ft (TLOD 684 OLOD 756 at steady 80 FPS thanks to AutoFPS) was an almost otherworldly experience... How far this sim has come!

EDIT: I'm currently waiting for a video to upload (approach into SBRJ Santos Dumont in the Fenix A320). I think it showcases really well what "magic" AutoFPS can give us with the right settings. I'll share it in this thread once it's finished. 

Edited March 18 by Cpt_Piett

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

EDIT: I'm currently waiting for a video to upload (approach into SBRJ Santos Dumont in the Fenix A320). I think it showcases really well what "magic" AutoFPS can give us with the right settings. I'll share it in this thread once it's finished. 

 

[AnkH 2,268]

Thanks for the comparison shots, as I expected, the difference is marginal if not using the switching back and forth of both screenshots allowing to actually see the difference. I would even claim that you wont notice the difference when not using screenshots and flying around between LOD 400 and LOD 600. Or: if I show you a video WITHOUT any chance to do a comparison, you would not be able to tell the LOD as soon as it is above 400. For me, reason enough not to bother that much about settings higher than 400. But that is my personal opinion 😉 

[mmcmah 409]

16 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

 

Your testing always inspires me to push my system! Thank you!

I understand and can see the difference that TLOD makes. I am about to try some in Norway to test my own settings. My question has to do with OLOD - you tend to set it very high on the ground. I have seen some effect from varying it be significant amounts, but since it doesn't seem to affect items popping in to to LOD issues, I'm not sure I see a great benefit to anything above 400. What has been your experience?

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

13 hours ago, AnkH said:

Thanks for the comparison shots, as I expected, the difference is marginal if not using the switching back and forth of both screenshots allowing to actually see the difference. I would even claim that you wont notice the difference when not using screenshots and flying around between LOD 400 and LOD 600. Or: if I show you a video WITHOUT any chance to do a comparison, you would not be able to tell the LOD as soon as it is above 400. For me, reason enough not to bother that much about settings higher than 400. But that is my personal opinion 😉 

I understand this viewpoint. Also I think it’s very much an “eye of the beholder” sort of thing. IMHO there is a difference between 400vs600 and 600vs 1000. BUT - I only really care about very high TLODs when I’m doing GA scenic flights. 

Also, the difference may be subtle. I zoomed in on the last image pair in my OP. There is a difference, however subtle it may be. I find this is somewhat akin to being new to HDR. It took me awhile to appreciate the difference HDR makes. Now I’ll notice it immediately if I forgot to turn it back on (I often turn it off when capturing screenshots with AutoFPS as from window).

TLOD 400:

TLOD 600:

2 hours ago, mmcmah said:

Your testing always inspires me to push my system! Thank you!

I understand and can see the difference that TLOD makes. I am about to try some in Norway to test my own settings. My question has to do with OLOD - you tend to set it very high on the ground. I have seen some effect from varying it be significant amounts, but since it doesn't seem to affect items popping in to to LOD issues, I'm not sure I see a great benefit to anything above 400. What has been your experience?

No worries, I’m an ultra nerd, so I’m having a lot of fun writing these mini-guides! In fact I’m about to start working on an AutoFPS meta-guide. Just need to find a free word processor as Win11 doesn’t have one 😅

Re: very high OLOD close to ground: Agree, 1000 sitting on the ground is useless. At low altitudes though: huge difference, absolutely massive! But to appreciate this one really needs to fly over a metropolitan area. 

Not sure if anyone has noticed, but in my NYC video at 3000ft basically every single object (buildings) within viewing distance is being rendered. That is a HUGE amount of objects!

I might do a comparison in my next video between different LOD levels if anyone’s interested. With AutoFPS it's SO EASY to change settings on the fly! Just need to find a metropolitan city with nearby mountains. Denver? 😉

Btw, come to Norway! We'd like to see more Coloradoans here 🙂

 

Edited March 19 by Cpt_Piett

[mmcmah 409]

37 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Re: very high OLOD close to ground: Agree, 1000 sitting on the ground is useless. At low altitudes though: huge difference, absolutely massive! But to appreciate this one really needs to fly over a metropolitan area. 

Not sure if anyone has noticed, but in my NYC video at 3000ft basically every single object (buildings) within viewing distance is being rendered. That is a HUGE amount of objects!

I might do a comparison in my next video between different LOD levels if anyone’s interested. With AutoFPS it's SO EASY to change settings on the fly! Just need to find a metropolitan city with nearby mountains. Denver? 😉

Btw, come to Norway! We'd like to see more Coloradoans here 🙂

I need to test it as well. I have been under the impression that OLOD is specifically tied to airports and airport sceneries, rather than other scenery. In fact, I thought TLOD (combined with the buildings setting in the graphics menu) is what most affects the building details over a metropolitan area.

Vis a vis Denver, unfortunately it doesn't look good with PG, and doesn't look like Denver when it's not in PG. Norway, on the other hand, is STELLAR with high TLODs. I took off and flew around ENAL as I tested TLOD settings. I decided that about 800 is the max that makes a substantial difference (600-800 is subtle but noticeable). It's also the max I can do around ENAL while also holding 60 FG FPS at 17,000 AGL.

I would love to visit Norway. Farthest north I've gotten is Denmark.

If I get any conclusions from OLOD testing, I'll post here.

[Cpt_Piett 4,701]

6 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

I need to test it as well. I have been under the impression that OLOD is specifically tied to airports and airport sceneries, rather than other scenery. In fact, I thought TLOD (combined with the buildings setting in the graphics menu) is what most affects the building details over a metropolitan area.

You might be right. What I've noticed is that TLOD definitely influences photogrammetry. 

7 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

Vis a vis Denver, unfortunately it doesn't look good with PG, and doesn't look like Denver when it's not in PG. Norway, on the other hand, is STELLAR with high TLODs. I took off and flew around ENAL as I tested TLOD settings. I decided that about 800 is the max that makes a substantial difference (600-800 is subtle but noticeable). It's also the max I can do around ENAL while also holding 60 FG FPS at 17,000 AGL.

I'm very happy with Norway in MSFS now, especially after two WUs. The mesh is fantastic. Lofoten IMO is by far the most beautiful part of Norway. I've been there several times and every time I return I get goosebumps! And I love landscape photography! Luckily we're in the screenshot forum, so:

(the relevance being to compare MSFS to RW of course)

42 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

I would love to visit Norway. Farthest north I've gotten is Denmark.

If I get any conclusions from OLOD testing, I'll post here.

Please do. It'll be great if we could use this thread to share LOD comparisons.