Why MSFS must be XBox like or die

[threexgreen 3,160]

13 minutes ago, Damian Clark said:

Then the big confirmation surprised us all that wx access would never come despite being the #1 requested wishlist item at the time (and it's still a top item).

I'm very positive they said a while ago WX access is now being discussed internally.

However, since they have always been working on weather and are working on it for MSFS 2024, I think a likely reason for keeping it shut may be that it's a constant work in progress and opening it up wouldn't work out well due its ever changing nature. I could be a thousand miles off, obviously.

[HiFlyer 9,410]

Hmmmm.... My post was hidden. Reading it again, and don't see anything controversial.....

[Krakin 5,905]

4 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Hmmmm.... My post was hidden. Reading it again, and don't see anything controversial.....

Didn't seem controversial to me either.....

[jcomm 6,064]

The fact that they're fed by Meteoblue data doesn't pair with the end quality of the weather effects, other than the visuals in some aspects.

They haven't yet solved the "low visibility" limitations, which can be somehow circumvented using their "aerosols" approach, METAR consistency still has it's quirks, as well as how "METAR weather" merges with aloft / model-based weather, some more detailled features only work when "Real World Weather" is in use (like Gopotential height variation due to high / low temperatures) but not with manually defined / preset weather, they don't offer Historical Weather, they model thermals in a totally inconsistent way, making soaring weather (convective) rather unrealistic, etc...

There's room for sure for a good weather program to overcome some of these limitations, like injecting proper turbulence effects instead of that freak shaking that is present at times in our MSFS flights, merge METAR with aloft in a more consistent way, customize visibility even with it's present modelling limitations, etc...

OTOH, I really don't know what's comming for MSFS 2024 (?) in this particular area, but I'm tempted to believe not much is planed to change (?)

Let's hope for he Best ! 

Edited April 2 by jcomm

[Damian Clark 1,331]

8 minutes ago, threexgreen said:

I'm very positive they said a while ago WX access is now being discussed internally.

However, since they have always been working on weather and are working on it for MSFS 2024, I think a likely reason for keeping it shut may be that it's a constant work in progress and opening it up wouldn't work out well due its ever changing nature. I could be a thousand miles off, obviously.

From my understanding, it was taken off the table, then a few months ago was indicated that it is being discussed again, then very recently taken off the table again due to data licensing issues preventing "read" access (as mentioned, that doesn't apply to us, we write not read).

While I agree that this is a common speculated or cited reason, could you (or anyone) explain how being able to set the weather conditions as has always been available until now would prevent further progress in internal weather development?  I just can't see it.  We've always been setting weather, 24 years now.  And only now it's preventing progress?  I seem to remember FS2004's cloud system being a major innovation and breakthrough that can only be considered progress.  And FSX's furthering of that and expanded weather and theme system.  And XP12's new weather system.  All very good progress.  MSFS2020's weather is very good.  They implemented many, many things that AS has been doing for many years now, along with brand new things that only they could being integrated into the graphics and terrain engines.  But why not let us keep doing what we've been doing while keeping the progress, as always?  Instead of us hurting progress, I'd say we've helped enable it.  But of course I'm biased.

[F737MAX 5,790]

@Damian Clark Is there no way for Hi-Fi to 'hack' MSFS' METAR stations reporting to give more than just one global weather scenario at a time?

Alternatively, is there a way to replace what MSFS imports from MeteoBlue to replicate entire weather systems using your own sourced data?

[threexgreen 3,160]

20 minutes ago, Damian Clark said:

From my understanding, it was taken off the table, then a few months ago was indicated that it is being discussed again, then very recently taken off the table again due to data licensing issues preventing "read" access (as mentioned, that doesn't apply to us, we write not read).

While I agree that this is a common speculated or cited reason, could you (or anyone) explain how being able to set the weather conditions as has always been available until now would prevent further progress in internal weather development?  I just can't see it.  We've always been setting weather, 24 years now.  And only now it's preventing progress?  I seem to remember FS2004's cloud system being a major innovation and breakthrough that can only be considered progress.  And FSX's furthering of that and expanded weather and theme system.  And XP12's new weather system.  All very good progress.  MSFS2020's weather is very good.  They implemented many, many things that AS has been doing for many years now, along with brand new things that only they could being integrated into the graphics and terrain engines.  But why not let us keep doing what we've been doing while keeping the progress, as always?  Instead of us hurting progress, I'd say we've helped enable it.  But of course I'm biased.

As for the licensing issue, perhaps opening up the weather would expose data that is contractually to be kept under wraps, even if someone doesn't intend on using this data.

My reasoning for them keeping third parties out of the weather system because of continuous work and changes being made to it is that perhaps, they are changing parts crucial to third party weather creation that would break support for them with every other iteration. But I'm not a software developer, so I could very well be wrong.

Edited April 2 by threexgreen

[Damian Clark 1,331]

4 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

@Damian Clark Is there no way for Hi-Fi to 'hack' MSFS' METAR stations reporting to give more than just one global weather scenario at a time?

Alternatively, is there a way to replace what MSFS imports from MeteoBlue to replicate entire weather systems using your own sourced data?

Of course there's always a way.  We've so far decided it's too risky, there was too much to lose if there was some mandatory required enforcement in their contract(s) that we would be subjected to.  But now, we have nothing to lose.  Nothing.  We're starving.  So maybe we can do this, if we can figure out how to feed ourselves while working on it.  We haven't given up yet.

[HiFlyer 9,410]

1 minute ago, Damian Clark said:

Of course there's always a way.  We've so far decided it's too risky, there was too much to lose if there was some mandatory required enforcement in their contract(s) that we would be subjected to.  But now, we have nothing to lose.  Nothing.  We're starving.  So maybe we can do this, if we can figure out how to feed ourselves while working on it.  We haven't given up yet.

Has work/profitability really dried up that much on the other sims?

[Krakin 5,905]

40 minutes ago, jcomm said:

OTOH, I really don't know what's comming for MSFS 2024 (?) in this particular area, but I'm tempted to believe not much is planed to change (?)

Let's hope for he Best ! 

We know only a few things so far.

1. The weather system has been completely rewritten

2. The above has allowed the new system to be advanced enough to dynamically create tornadoes

3. In response to a "clouds sometimes look ugly" bug listing, Asobo has it scheduled as, "Planned, MSFS 2024(launch, no + sign)"

Now for the third one, I can only speculate that this has something to do with the ash clouds we see sometimes in the sim. It was explained that this occurs because of limitations in the sim's lighting model. The current engine would be severely bogged down if they were to implement the proper light scattering that would prevent the overly grey look.

Edited April 2 by Krakin

[MarcG 3,070]

8 minutes ago, Krakin said:

We know only a few things so far.

1. The weather system has been completely rewritten

 

Are you 100% sure on that? I don't recall any mention of the weather system being "completely rewritten" of course I may of forgotten(!), source please, thanks

[Tuskin38 6,711]

14 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Now for the third one, I can only speculate that this has something to do with the ash clouds we see sometimes in the sim. It was explained that this occurs because of limitations in the sim's lighting model. The current engine would be severely bogged down if they were to implement the proper light scattering that would prevent the overly grey look.

One of the devs did say having light effect clouds realistically would be very hard on performance.

[F737MAX 5,790]

13 minutes ago, Damian Clark said:

Of course there's always a way.

Hope you are able to find one or two as I'm more than simply interested in a Hi-Fi solution to MSFS weather.

Perhaps a 'lite' version of a weather product as a stopgap that can manage more than one layer of clouds or greater cloud variety and density than MSFS' own live weather can manage?

[HiFlyer 9,410]

2 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

One of the devs did say having light effect clouds realistically would be very hard on performance.

Too hard and it might become nearly impossible to import to Xbox? For my part I expect and accept such compromises 

[Damian Clark 1,331]

8 minutes ago, threexgreen said:

My reasoning for them keeping third parties out of the weather system because of continuous work and changes being made to it is that perhaps, they are changing parts crucial to third party weather creation that would break support for them. But I'm not a software developer, so I could very well be wrong.

That's reasonable.  I suppose my bias makes me a bit blind to this aspect even though I deal with it myself from my end.  It would certainly complicate matters in at least some way and take at least a little effort.  If this is the final reason, it's too bad that effort can't be realized like before and like in all other platforms, or most other areas of this sim. Thanks for the reply.