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LRBS

Reverser operations for the 787 and 747

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Is there any update on fixing the reverser operations for the 787 and 747? The reversers can only be deployed below 80 KTS on these two aircraft, whereas all other airplanes with reversers are functioning correctly.


I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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I flew the 789 from Dubai to Addis Ababa last night and the reversers worked as normal. I assume you're using the Horizon Sim mod?


B450 Tomahawk Max / Ryzen 7 5800x3D / RTX 3060ti 8G / Noctua NH-UI21S Max Cooling / 32G Patriot RAM / 1TB NVME / 450G SSD / Thrustmaster TCA & Throttle Quadrant / Xiaomi 32" Wide Curved Monitor 1440p 144hz

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9 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

I flew the 789 from Dubai to Addis Ababa last night and the reversers worked as normal. I assume you're using the Horizon Sim mod?

Thanks for answering. I use the default, I'll give a try for the Hrison Sim mod and let you know.I'm working to pinpoint the issue. As I mentioned, all default airplanes, including PMDG, MD80 and the AB, are functioning properly. The problem I'm facing is that the reversers after touchdown are only available at below 80 KTS and only 40%.


I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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26 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

I flew the 789 from Dubai to Addis Ababa last night and the reversers worked as normal. I assume you're using the Horizon Sim mod?

I've noticed the same issue with Horizon. Please try using the reversers again after touchdown at high speeds (above 80 KTS).


I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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Posted (edited)

I think maybe there's some kind of misunderstanding here.

In the 78X and 747-8, there is no speed detection. The only two conditions in the code are 1) is the plane on the ground (SIM ON GROUND) and 2) are the engines running. The reverser lockout code doesn't query the speed and is in fact entirely unaware of the indicated airspeed of the aircraft.

Perhaps something else at play or some kind of hardware/mod conflict?

Edited by MattNischan

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24 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

I think maybe there's some kind of misunderstanding here.

In the 78X and 747-8, there is no speed detection. The only two conditions are 1) is the plane on the ground (SIM ON GROUND) and 2) are the engines running. The reverser lockout doesn't query the speed and is in fact entirely unaware of the indicated airspeed of the aircraft.

Perhaps something else at play or some kind of hardware/mod conflict?

You are absolutely right about the speed issue. I will ask again because I can't seem to find any evidence of hardware conflict. I say this because, as I mentioned, all the other airplanes, jets, and non-jets with reversers don't exhibit this problem as to be able to use reverse only below 80 KTS. 
I just want to make sure we understand this correctly. I was previously qualified to fly the real 787 and currently fly the 748. Typically, after landing, we deploy reversers from idle to max based on the conditions. However, I've noticed that after touchdown, I can only engage reversers below only 80 KTS. What I expect to see is for the speed brakes to extend first, regardless of whether they are armed or not, and for the reversers to be available from idle to max N1 as needed based on the EEC calculations.

I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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Posted (edited)

I did a quick test at Area 51 with the MSFS2020 default 787-10.

Took off then right back to earth and the reversers deployed when selected 108KTS.

Note: I use FSUIPC

Edited by vonmar

Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - PP-ASEL KDTW

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2 hours ago, LRBS said:

I've noticed the same issue with Horizon. Please try using the reversers again after touchdown at high speeds (above 80 KTS).

As I said, I landed at HAAB with a touchdown speed of around 145kts and the reversers worked normally. Sounds like a conflict issue with the throttle hardware you are using. 


B450 Tomahawk Max / Ryzen 7 5800x3D / RTX 3060ti 8G / Noctua NH-UI21S Max Cooling / 32G Patriot RAM / 1TB NVME / 450G SSD / Thrustmaster TCA & Throttle Quadrant / Xiaomi 32" Wide Curved Monitor 1440p 144hz

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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

I did a quick test at Area 51 with the MSFS2020 default 787-10.

Took off then right back to earth and the reversers deployed when selected 108KTS.

Note: I use FSUIPC

OK gents, thank you.
Now I'm making progress and believe there might be a conflict issue somewhere.  But I can't find it, so I must be missing something.
I'm also using FSUIPC. Could you explain how you set it up? Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Also, where it might be that conflict, what should I be looking for, please?
Again, I'm not trying to be difficult, but I don't understand why this works on other airplanes but not on these two. 

I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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I've had some strange bugs/conflicts when setting up new throttle profiles with the Thrustmaster Quadrant. I had to ditch the ATR72 as I couldn't get it to work properly with its own profile, it was completely unresponsive even with a fresh control profile setup. The only way for it to work was when I paired it with my A330 profile, why that is is anyones guess. Then during flight it would thrust forward into full power by itself, even though N1 never moved on the engine panel. Strange behaviour but all related to the profile/aircraft link.

Any anomalies with the throttles for me have been related to those profles so I would look there for a start. Luckily the fresh setup I made for the 789 has had zero issues on my end.


B450 Tomahawk Max / Ryzen 7 5800x3D / RTX 3060ti 8G / Noctua NH-UI21S Max Cooling / 32G Patriot RAM / 1TB NVME / 450G SSD / Thrustmaster TCA & Throttle Quadrant / Xiaomi 32" Wide Curved Monitor 1440p 144hz

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3 hours ago, LRBS said:

I just want to make sure we understand this correctly. I was previously qualified to fly the real 787 and currently fly the 748. Typically, after landing, we deploy reversers from idle to max based on the conditions.

Yes, we are understanding each other. By "code", I meant the code for the airplanes in the sim. The reverse lockout code in our FADEC is super small, here it is in its entirety:

if (this.isOnGround.get() && engineState.startState === BoeingEngineStartState.RUNNING) {
  return newPos;
} else {
  return BoeingFadec.TR_LOCKOUT_DETENT;
}

As far as what engine speed full reverse will command, we're a bit at the mercy of the sim there, as we don't have any kind of custom turbine simulation.

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1 hour ago, MattNischan said:

Yes, we are understanding each other. By "code", I meant the code for the airplanes in the sim. The reverse lockout code in our FADEC is super small, here it is in its entirety:


if (this.isOnGround.get() && engineState.startState === BoeingEngineStartState.RUNNING) {
  return newPos;
} else {
  return BoeingFadec.TR_LOCKOUT_DETENT;
}

As far as what engine speed full reverse will command, we're a bit at the mercy of the sim there, as we don't have any kind of custom turbine simulation.

Thank you for your understanding, now I understand the limitations. Regarding 787 and 747, for the takeoff flaps markings on the PFD speed tape, lets say that we use flaps 10, the speed tape should initially display the marking for flaps retraction speed 5, not 10. It would be beneficial to address this issue to enhance accuracy, aside from that, good work within the constraints of MSFS. Thank you.


I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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2 hours ago, LRBS said:

I'm also using FSUIPC.

What is your hardware and how is it set up with FSUIPC and the MSFS Profile being used?


Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - PP-ASEL KDTW

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1 hour ago, vonmar said:

What is your hardware and how is it set up with FSUIPC and the MSFS Profile being used?

Thanks.

I have the Throttle Quadrant Console from Precision Flight Controls and I use the last lever as a reverser with FSUIPC. There is no profile set in MSFS just to avoid any issues. I checked for conflicts with all my joysticks, rudder, mouse, and keyboard but couldn't find any. It's very frustrating that MSFS lacks an engine reverser axis, especially when there are throttle quadrants available with individual reversers. Can't figure out why other airplanes don't have this issue. 


I9- 13900K- CPU @ 5.0GHz, 64 GB RAM @ 6200MHz, NVIDIA RTX 4090

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10 hours ago, LRBS said:

Thanks.

I have the Throttle Quadrant Console from Precision Flight Controls and I use the last lever as a reverser with FSUIPC. There is no profile set in MSFS just to avoid any issues. I checked for conflicts with all my joysticks, rudder, mouse, and keyboard but couldn't find any. It's very frustrating that MSFS lacks an engine reverser axis, especially when there are throttle quadrants available with individual reversers. Can't figure out why other airplanes don't have this issue. 

I use Saitek Yoke / Throttel system.
Throttle axis fully retarded activates a button that I assign in FSUIPC.
In MSFS I use a “blank” Profile so FSUIPC has full control of the assignments.

Best Regards,

Vaughan Martell - PP-ASEL KDTW

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