Hi @FS++

I hope you are well? 

I am wondering whether a simple improvement could be introduced to MCE? Namely the Above and Below the line checklist idea. Many airlines use checklists where the checklist is performed to the line. As an example at my current airline before takeoff checklist is divided into two parts: above and below the line. If the PF was to ask for it they would call Before takeoff checklist. And would be performed to the line. The pilot monitoring would finish the checklist by saying ie.: we are down to the line / before takeoff checklist completed to the line. The below the line would be then performed upon clearance to line up received. The PF then would call for below the line. Currently the way MCE works one could split the checklists up into Before Takeoff and Before Takeoff below the line, however because we have to append the "checklist" in the header, MCE would call the checklist Before takeoff below the line checklist which is kind of incorrect because there is only one checklist for Before takeoff checklist, it's just that it's divided into two parts which are performed at two different times. Would it be possible to implement so that MCE is aware of such structure? Let's one could ask for Before Takeoff Checklist and the FO would perform it until the line, and when it's time and I would call below the line, he would perform the rest of the checklist below the line and would finish saying Before Takeoff Checklist complete.

Currently my two ways of working around the limitations of MCE is:

- To switch off the feature of MCE to say the header of the checklist so it could be called whatever I wanted and the FO would not call the header out, but it's a half solution to the problem because the FO will call out the name of the checklist upon completion the checklist. In this way I just write a script with let's say before takeoff checklist and put the relevant checklist into the script. The FO would though call out the real name of the checklist which is immersion breaking...

- The second way is that I name the checklist Before Takeoff (Checklist) for the above line part, and for the below the line I just call it Before Takeoff below the line (checklist) which again isn't the way it's done in real life.

I wonder what do you think whether it's possible? Maybe introducing a different divider in the checklist file for the above and below the line type checklists. Currently the user divides the checklists by "_________________________" - a long underscore line, maybe for these types of checklists there could be a long line of dashes to differentiate between a regular checklist and the above / below line checklist, and have an option in the MCE.ini to enable MCE to use let's say "------------------------"

I hope it's somewhat clear of what is my idea? Thank you so much. 

I second that suggestion. I wished to have such an option for a long time, in particular for flying the Airbus.

 

Maybe an easier way to - at least to some extent - implement that feature would be that MCE accepts "... checklist to the line / ... checklist below the line" as a trigger to start the checklist (instead of just "... to the line checklist") and respectively finishes the checklist with "...checklist completed to the line" (instead of "... checklist to the line completed").

So we could set up and then call for a "before takeoff checklist to the line" and a "before takeoff checklist below the line".

 

Still not exactly corresponding to the procedure explained by @Balint Szarka but already a lot better than having to call for "before takeoff to the line checklist" and finishing with "before takeoff to the line checklist completed."

From my layman's perspective that might be easier to implement than adding a new functionality to the checklists algorithm.

 

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by RALF9636

8 hours ago, Balint Szarka said:

Hi @FS++

I hope you are well? 

The PF then would call for below the line.

 

Try creating an aliased command that would act as if you said "before takeoff below the line checklist"

Proceed the same way as if creating a new Flow, with just one command.

Flow name: below the line.

Add a single command: before takeoff below the line checklist

Do not use the verbose option.

13 hours ago, FS++ said:

Try creating an aliased command that would act as if you said "before takeoff below the line checklist"

Proceed the same way as if creating a new Flow, with just one command.

Flow name: below the line.

Add a single command: before takeoff below the line checklist

Do not use the verbose option.

I am already using this method. However the problem is that one can only create one "below the line" script but there can be multiple checklists that would have below the line parts... So obviously I can't create two "below the line" scripts for multiple reasons that I am sure you understand.

17 hours ago, FS++ said:

Try creating an aliased command that would act as if you said "before takeoff below the line checklist"

Proceed the same way as if creating a new Flow, with just one command.

Flow name: below the line.

Add a single command: before takeoff below the line checklist

Do not use the verbose option.

Nice idea. I will give that some thoughts.

3 hours ago, Balint Szarka said:

I am already using this method. However the problem is that one can only create one "below the line" script but there can be multiple checklists that would have below the line parts... So obviously I can't create two "below the line" scripts for multiple reasons that I am sure you understand.

You could create flows called "okay below the line" or "below the line please" etc. to have several different flows (of course you would have to remember which one to use for which checklist).

 

1 minute ago, RALF9636 said:

Nice idea. I will give that some thoughts.

You could create flows called "okay below the line" or "below the line please" etc. to have several different flows (of course you would have to remember which one to use for which checklist).

 

And that is the problem that you have to remember that saying “okay below the line” will trigger this and “below the line” will trigger that. In a high workload situation where one has to think whether it was this or that isn’t simplifying one’s workflows but exactly the opposite, making it harder.

19 hours ago, Balint Szarka said:

And that is the problem that you have to remember that saying “okay below the line” will trigger this and “below the line” will trigger that. In a high workload situation where one has to think whether it was this or that isn’t simplifying one’s workflows but exactly the opposite, making it harder.

Please post your custom checklist and highlight were you may need more than one "below the line". Thanks

On 9/2/2024 at 6:11 PM, Balint Szarka said:

To switch off the feature of MCE to say the header of the checklist so it could be called whatever I wanted and the FO would not call the header out,

Could you remind me how to do that?

6 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

Could you remind me how to do that?

[Checklist]

ReadHeader=0   //Defaults to 1 when missing which means Fo will always say the checklist he's about to read

41 minutes ago, FS++ said:

[Checklist]

ReadHeader=0   //Defaults to 1 when missing which means Fo will always say the checklist he's about to read

Thanks!

One more useful undocumented mce.ini entry... 😉

Not included in the template you posted in the other thread.

 

Edited September 5, 20241 yr by RALF9636

On 9/4/2024 at 2:19 PM, FS++ said:

Please post your custom checklist and highlight were you may need more than one "below the line". Thanks

There are two places.

- First one is the Before Start Checklist

- Second one is the Before Takeoff Checklist

They both have a below the line part. That is as per the real airline's checklist that I work for.

Before Start Checklist: https://prnt.sc/GCPB5ku4b1_q

Before Takeoff Checklist: https://prnt.sc/-tmn9J4QkUld

Currently I solved the issue by just calling them as you see it in the screenshot.

I scripted that if I call:

Before Takeoff Checklist Below The Line

the FO will start with the:

Before Takeoff Below The Line Checklist. It sounds weird because if MCE could omit the word checklist that is mandatory added at the end of each checklist header and I could call the checklist myself whatever I wanted it would be a lot of help.

On 9/5/2024 at 4:41 PM, Balint Szarka said:

There are two places.

- First one is the Before Start Checklist

- Second one is the Before Takeoff Checklist

They both have a below the line part. That is as per the real airline's checklist that I work for.

Before Start Checklist: https://prnt.sc/GCPB5ku4b1_q

Before Takeoff Checklist: https://prnt.sc/-tmn9J4QkUld

Currently I solved the issue by just calling them as you see it in the screenshot.

I scripted that if I call:

Before Takeoff Checklist Below The Line

the FO will start with the:

Before Takeoff Below The Line Checklist. It sounds weird because if MCE could omit the word checklist that is mandatory added at the end of each checklist header and I could call the checklist myself whatever I wanted it would be a lot of help.

Thanks for the explanation.

If the workaround isn't good enough, we think there is another way to provide even more flexibility if required.

For instance, you could keep the "ReadHeader" enabled, then in the checklist that has a "below the line items", you would add this line to the checklist 

[ ] before takeoff to the line  -- complete  //2

Before takeoff

 

[ ] item 1 -- reply

[ ] item two -- reply

[ ] before takeoff to the line  -- complete  //2   (FO reads this and you won't need to reply.

[ ] item three -- reply

[ ] item four -- reply

Then when MCE sees the line with "to the line" (or whatever verbiage you deem best suited, it will automatically simulate a "pause checklist".

You then just need to redefine "below the line" as "resume checklist".

 

On 9/6/2024 at 8:07 PM, FS++ said:

Thanks for the explanation.

If the workaround isn't good enough, we think there is another way to provide even more flexibility if required.

For instance, you could keep the "ReadHeader" enabled, then in the checklist that has a "below the line items", you would add this line to the checklist 

[ ] before takeoff to the line  -- complete  //2

Before takeoff

 

[ ] item 1 -- reply

[ ] item two -- reply

[ ] before takeoff to the line  -- complete  //2   (FO reads this and you won't need to reply.

[ ] item three -- reply

[ ] item four -- reply

Then when MCE sees the line with "to the line" (or whatever verbiage you deem best suited, it will automatically simulate a "pause checklist".

You then just need to redefine "below the line" as "resume checklist".

 

Could you please explain this again. I am not getting it…😅

13 hours ago, Balint Szarka said:

Could you please explain this again. I am not getting it…😅

In next new patch, you can have as many checklist sections that have a below the line and won't need your "below the line" custom sentence to act as a trigger for "before takeoff checklist" or whatever other checklist.

By adding...

[ ] whatever_checklist_section to the line  -- complete  //2

MCE will pause the checklist as if you said "pause checklist"

You can then resume with "resume checklist", "continue checklist" "carry on with checklist", or if you prefer a custom command like "below the line" or "continue below the line" or whatever other verbiage to act as an alias for "resume checklist" rather that tying the "below the line" to a specific checklist header.

 

On 9/8/2024 at 5:21 PM, FS++ said:

In next new patch, you can have as many checklist sections that have a below the line and won't need your "below the line" custom sentence to act as a trigger for "before takeoff checklist" or whatever other checklist.

By adding...

[ ] whatever_checklist_section to the line  -- complete  //2

MCE will pause the checklist as if you said "pause checklist"

You can then resume with "resume checklist", "continue checklist" "carry on with checklist", or if you prefer a custom command like "below the line" or "continue below the line" or whatever other verbiage to act as an alias for "resume checklist" rather that tying the "below the line" to a specific checklist header.

 

Oh wow 🤩 that is a great improvement. Thank you so much 😃

When are you expecting this new patch to go live?