How to fix seaplanes bouncing on the water?

[Zylx]

I have a good number of seaplanes installed as well as a couple flying boats in P3Dv5 but I have a problem where some of them like to bounce up out of the water and back down again over and over in a very unrealistic way when the waves get a little choppy.  I notice this especially seems to happen to native FSX aircraft I have installed.  It is a very overdramatic and unrealistic effect and makes flying seaplanes more annoying than fun.  I was wondering if there is any way to fix this?  Like some values in the aircraft.cfg or something?

I would greatly appreciate any help,

Thanks

[Daube]

1 hour ago, Zylx said:

I have a good number of seaplanes installed as well as a couple flying boats in P3Dv5 but I have a problem where some of them like to bounce up out of the water and back down again over and over in a very unrealistic way when the waves get a little choppy.  I notice this especially seems to happen to native FSX aircraft I have installed.  It is a very overdramatic and unrealistic effect and makes flying seaplanes more annoying than fun.  I was wondering if there is any way to fix this?  Like some values in the aircraft.cfg or something?

I would greatly appreciate any help,

Thanks

As far as I remember, I didn't have that problem with the default FSX Beaver and Goose that I had imported into my P3Dv4.

And most of the times, the bouncing was due to a bad contact point in the aircraft.cfg... like some body/hard contact point which was lower than the floats contact points, or something like that. The solution was usually to remove the faulty contact point from the CFG file of the plane. Sorry I'm not able to be more specific 😞

 

[Zylx]

13 hours ago, Daube said:

As far as I remember, I didn't have that problem with the default FSX Beaver and Goose that I had imported into my P3Dv4.

And most of the times, the bouncing was due to a bad contact point in the aircraft.cfg... like some body/hard contact point which was lower than the floats contact points, or something like that. The solution was usually to remove the faulty contact point from the CFG file of the plane. Sorry I'm not able to be more specific 😞

 

Thank you for your reply, that gives me a place to start.  I'm no expert at modifying the aircraft.cfg but I will take a look and see if I can figure out what needs to be changed in order to fix the problem.

The aircraft that does it the worst is the OZx Grummun Goose Redux and some other freeware aircraft I have that have floatplane versions.  I haven't flown the default Goose in P3Dv5 so I don't know if it has the same issue.  I haven't ported over the default Beaver either but I should try it and see if it does it too.  Some of my floatplanes do it and some don't.

I've also read that water works a bit differently in P3Dv5 compared to FSX and older P3D versions, if that's true than maybe that has something to do with it too.

Edited September 11 by Zylx

[ATRguy]

Seaplanes suck and don’t behave anything like real seaplanes in any of the sims.  
 

It’s too bad, but that’s the way it is. 

[Rogen]

On 9/11/2024 at 3:06 PM, Zylx said:

The aircraft that does it the worst is the OZx Grummun Goose Redux and some other freeware aircraft I have that have floatplane versions.  I haven't flown the default Goose in P3Dv5 so I don't know if it has the same issue.  I haven't ported over the default Beaver either but I should try it and see if it does it too.  Some of my floatplanes do it and some don't.

I've also read that water works a bit differently in P3Dv5 compared to FSX and older P3D versions, if that's true than maybe that has something to do with it too.

I believe the water is managed by Nvidia waveworks and how rough it is will depend on the winds which can really chop it up.

Do you have A2A's AccuFeel ?

I've had it since FSX and it was a default inclusion in DoveTail's now defunct Flight Sim World.

AccuFeel does provide many options for managing things like turbulance physics and water waves & drag, as well as adding many little things to all aircraft, while also allowing individual aircraft managment, really it's something LM should have incorportated as default just like DoveTail did...

It was one of those applications I took for granted in FSX and I found I missed greatly when not installed and it was a deciding factor in the timing of my move from FSX to P3D x64 (was awaiting A2A's migration to x64 based code).

The link below has details and says it's v4 & v5 and I do have it in v4 & v5 myself.

https://a2asimulations.com/product/accu-feel-v-2-air-land-sea-p3dv4/

 

As to the OZx Goose, I've played with the contact points myself and have included them in the spoiler below where one in particular may be of assistance.

Cheers

// Relates to the use of Rob MCCoy's water landing effects (Stabilizes aircraft or boat by reducing excessive skipping and bouncing on rough water and subsequently smooths the use of effects)
always_use_avg_surface=1

Spoiler

[contact_points]
        //0  Class
        //1  Longitudinal Position        (feet)
        //2  Lateral Position             (feet)
        //3  Vertical Position            (feet)
        //4  Impact Damage Threshold      (Feet Per Minute)
        //5  Brake Map                    (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
        //6  Wheel Radius                 (feet)
        //7  Steer Angle                  (degrees)
        //8  Static Compression           (feet)  (0 if rigid)
        //9  Max/Static Compression Ratio
        //10 Damping Ratio                (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
        //11 Extension Time               (seconds)
        //12 Retraction Time              (seconds)
        //13 Sound Type
        //14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
        //15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
// GEAR
point.0 = 1, -20.4, 0.00, -2.902, 7500, 0, 0.52, 60, 0.42, 4.0, 0.90, 5.0, 4.0, 0, 195, 250 // Add a fake water rudder by changing the #7 value from 60 to 90
//point.0 = 1, -20.4,  0.00, -2.902, 7500, 0, 0.52,  90, 0.42, 4.0, 0.90, 5.0, 4.0, 0, 195, 250
point.1 = 1,  -0.8, -3.75, -5.0, 7500, 1, 1.25,   0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 6.0, 5.0, 2, 195, 250
point.2 = 1,  -0.8,  3.75, -5.0, 7500, 2, 1.25,   0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 7.0, 6.0, 3, 195, 250

// FLOATS (Original OZx HD Goose)
point.3=4,   3.589, -2.692,  -2.2, 7500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.4=4,   3.589,  2.691,  -2.2, 7500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.5=4, -15.249, -1.794, -1.25, 4500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0
point.6=4, -15.249,  1.794, -1.25, 4500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0

// Wing Floats (Original OZx HD Goose)
point.7=4,  -2.45,-20.500,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 12.0, 12.0, 5, 0, 0 // The original wing floats lateral position (-16.146) was too far inboard resulting the the McCoy effect not locating on the actual floats.
point.8=4,  -2.45, 20.500,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 14.0, 14.0, 5, 0, 0 // The original wing floats lateral position ( 16.146) was too far inboard resulting the the McCoy effect not locating on the actual floats.
point.9=5,  -15.5,    0.0,  -1.73,    0, 0, 0.0,   30, 0.00, 0.0, 1.00,  0.0,  0.0, 0, 0, 0 // Add a fake water rudder by changing the #7 value from 20 to 30

// Relates to the use of Rob MCCoy's water landing effects (Stabilizes aircraft or boat by reducing excessive skipping and bouncing on rough water and subsequently smooths the use of effects)
always_use_avg_surface=1

static_pitch = 3.5              //Degrees
static_cg_height = 3.75         //Feet
gear_system_type=0              //Electric
tailwheel_lock = 1

 

 

Edited September 12 by Rogen
spelling

[Zylx]

2 hours ago, Rogen said:

I believe the water is managed by Nvidia waveworks and how rough it is will depend on the winds which can really chop it up.

Do you have A2A's AccuFeel ?

I've had it since FSX and it was a default inclusion in DoveTail's now defunct Flight Sim World.

AccuFeel does provide many options for managing things like turbulance physics and water waves & drag, as well as adding many little things to all aircraft, while also allowing individual aircraft managment, really it's something LM should have incorportated as default just like DoveTail did...

It was one of those applications I took for granted in FSX and I found I missed greatly when not installed and it was a deciding factor in the timing of my move from FSX to P3D x64 (was awaiting A2A's migration to x64 based code).

The link below has details and says it's v4 & v5 and I do have it in v4 & v5 myself.

https://a2asimulations.com/product/accu-feel-v-2-air-land-sea-p3dv4/

 

As to the OZx Goose, I've played with the contact points myself and have included them in the spoiler below where one in particular may be of assistance.

Cheers

// Relates to the use of Rob MCCoy's water landing effects (Stabilizes aircraft or boat by reducing excessive skipping and bouncing on rough water and subsequently smooths the use of effects)
always_use_avg_surface=1

  Reveal hidden contents

[contact_points]
        //0  Class
        //1  Longitudinal Position        (feet)
        //2  Lateral Position             (feet)
        //3  Vertical Position            (feet)
        //4  Impact Damage Threshold      (Feet Per Minute)
        //5  Brake Map                    (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
        //6  Wheel Radius                 (feet)
        //7  Steer Angle                  (degrees)
        //8  Static Compression           (feet)  (0 if rigid)
        //9  Max/Static Compression Ratio
        //10 Damping Ratio                (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)
        //11 Extension Time               (seconds)
        //12 Retraction Time              (seconds)
        //13 Sound Type
        //14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
        //15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
// GEAR
point.0 = 1, -20.4, 0.00, -2.902, 7500, 0, 0.52, 60, 0.42, 4.0, 0.90, 5.0, 4.0, 0, 195, 250 // Add a fake water rudder by changing the #7 value from 60 to 90
//point.0 = 1, -20.4,  0.00, -2.902, 7500, 0, 0.52,  90, 0.42, 4.0, 0.90, 5.0, 4.0, 0, 195, 250
point.1 = 1,  -0.8, -3.75, -5.0, 7500, 1, 1.25,   0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 6.0, 5.0, 2, 195, 250
point.2 = 1,  -0.8,  3.75, -5.0, 7500, 2, 1.25,   0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.85, 7.0, 6.0, 3, 195, 250

// FLOATS (Original OZx HD Goose)
point.3=4,   3.589, -2.692,  -2.2, 7500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.4=4,   3.589,  2.691,  -2.2, 7500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0, 0
point.5=4, -15.249, -1.794, -1.25, 4500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0
point.6=4, -15.249,  1.794, -1.25, 4500, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0, 0

// Wing Floats (Original OZx HD Goose)
point.7=4,  -2.45,-20.500,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 12.0, 12.0, 5, 0, 0 // The original wing floats lateral position (-16.146) was too far inboard resulting the the McCoy effect not locating on the actual floats.
point.8=4,  -2.45, 20.500,  -1.73, 3700, 0, 0.0,    0, 0.50, 2.5, 0.70, 14.0, 14.0, 5, 0, 0 // The original wing floats lateral position ( 16.146) was too far inboard resulting the the McCoy effect not locating on the actual floats.
point.9=5,  -15.5,    0.0,  -1.73,    0, 0, 0.0,   30, 0.00, 0.0, 1.00,  0.0,  0.0, 0, 0, 0 // Add a fake water rudder by changing the #7 value from 20 to 30

// Relates to the use of Rob MCCoy's water landing effects (Stabilizes aircraft or boat by reducing excessive skipping and bouncing on rough water and subsequently smooths the use of effects)
always_use_avg_surface=1

static_pitch = 3.5              //Degrees
static_cg_height = 3.75         //Feet
gear_system_type=0              //Electric
tailwheel_lock = 1

 

 

Wow thank you so much for sharing the adjusted contact points you made, I really appreciate it.  The OZx Goose is one of my favorite sea/amphibious planes and I always wanted to have it work better in the water.  I really need to learn how to do this myself, especially since I'm really getting back into flying seaplanes and flying boats again.  I haven't flown any in quite a while, I forgot how fun it is.

I usually don't mess with the aircraft.cfg unless I'm adding liveries, the rest I don't know much about how to adjust.  Where the contact points are listed just looks like a bunch of numbers, I have no idea what they mean.

I do already have A2A's AccuFeel installed but I've never really messed with the settings.  I thought it's mostly automatic and adjusts to whichever aircraft I load.  I really should spend a little time learning how to adjust it, you are right that it probably would help.  I wouldn't fly without it either 🙂

[Zylx]

9 hours ago, ATRguy said:

Seaplanes suck and don’t behave anything like real seaplanes in any of the sims.  
 

It’s too bad, but that’s the way it is. 

It depends on the airplane design imo, some are better than others, also some sims are better at it than others.  Each have their quirks when it comes to seaplanes.  The planes I tend to have issues with are old FSX freeware and old FSX payware planes that I'm running in P3Dv5.  Some work well and others don't.  I've read that water works a bit differently in P3Dv5 compared to older versions and FSX.

I was just flying the A2A J-3 Cub on floats for example and it actually seems to behave quite realistically, more so than any other float plane I've tried.

Edited September 13 by Zylx

[Zylx]

Question, can I fix land airplanes that have tires that sink through the runway/taxiway textures by adjusting contact points too?

I've always wanted a way to fix that annoying problem.  Imo it really kills the immersion to see your plane sinking through the asphalt or concrete runways and taxiways.

[ATRguy]

1 hour ago, Zylx said:

It depends on the airplane design imo, some are better than others, also some sims are better at it than others.  Each have their quirks when it comes to seaplanes.  The planes I tend to have issues with are old FSX freeware and old FSX payware planes that I'm running in P3Dv5.  Some work well and others don't.  I've read that water works a bit differently in P3Dv5 compared to older versions and FSX.

I was just flying the A2A J-3 Cub on floats for example and it actually seems to behave quite realistically, more so than any other float plane I've tried.

Even the A2A Cub makes the best of a bad simulation.  
 

I’ve got over 2000 hours on floats IRL.  There’s a lot missing. 

[Rogen]

5 hours ago, Zylx said:

Question, can I fix land airplanes that have tires that sink through the runway/taxiway textures by adjusting contact points too?

I've always wanted a way to fix that annoying problem.  Imo it really kills the immersion to see your plane sinking through the asphalt or concrete runways and taxiways.

You could but it's probably something with the airport itself.

But otherwise yeah, trial it out and see how you go.

Here's a few pics where I adjusted contact points so the wheels better align with the surface.

Cheers

 

[gaab]

I remember a discussion here

where the advice was to add  into the contacts section of the aircraft config:
always_use_avg_surface=1

I used it in the past successfully with some old FSX model.

To test in your situation.

My two cents

 

Edited September 13 by gaab