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NotASenator

Accept or pushing FSX beyond?

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Guest UlfB

Hi,Seems that the community is split into two groups, if I might generalize a bit.One group that accepts the limitations of the hardware and set the scenery sliders to a level where the FSX experience is fullfilled. A nice and smooth flight. You enjoy the flying and don't focus on any odd scenery details. As in real life.Another group spends more time focusing on problems with blurries and details in the scenery while trying to max out scenery sliders. Spending a lot of time trying to tweak some more fps out of the hardware. Reinstalling and reinstalling OS and FSX and with and without SP1 and SP2.I got to confess that I've spent some time tweaking and focusing on how autogen and textures are loaded. But I've stopped doing this, because it prevents me from enjoying the beauty of FSX and the add ons that I've invested in. At this time I've applied a single tweak to my fsx.cfg file (reduced autogen trees) - that's it. And when I fly, mostly VFR flights, I appreciate the FSX/GEX/FEX/FTX/UTX sceneries and don't bother if some textures or autogen load a bit late. With TrackIR the flight experience is quite nice and way better than in FS9.If you are a passionate tweaker and have a negative opinion on how FSX works, this is my advice: Pull your scenery sliders a step to the left and start flying VFR flights with the default Cessna 172 in VC. You have a lot to discover in the FSX world as is and with add ons like GEX/UTX/FTX you have a lot more.If your hardware need upgrade, stop tweaking and use the spare time to earn some more money to buy yourself a new pc. If this isn't possible - don't blame Microsoft and FSX. Stop using FSX and stay with FS9 and please don't post negative on FSX. FSX isn't the cause, it's only the symptom: Your'e short of money or your priority of investments doesn't favour FSX. I truly wish that I was that rich that I could buy everyone a brand new, high end pc to use with FSX.If your'e addicted to tweaking and spend more time hating FSX than enjoying the positive aspects of FSX, I really hope that you'll consider start flying and discover the upside of FSX.Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

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I am in the group that, I think, got the right hardware and is satisfied with FSX without all the sliders extremely high and without any addons. It produces, for me, a very realistic and enjoyable representation of general aviation flying; that is until that awful "booiinngg" sound and everything freezes on final approach at the end of a long IFR flight. I've had to start over so many times due to computer crashes that it is standard procedure to save the flight every so often and expect to have to return to one (or more) of the restore points before completing the flight. At least these crashes don't involve an FAA investigation and I live to try again.It used to be that the warning signs of an impending computer crash during a flight were 3D display anomolies. Now, it's keyboard keys that no longer work* or the on-screen heading bug control that no longer works.I still have FS9 with it's add-ons on the computer but doubt that I'll go back to it. With it's imperfections, FSX is still quite an experience.* I wonder if reassigning keys rather than using default assignments increases the computing load?

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Guest

there have always been framerate junkies, there always will be.Ignore them, they're trolls in these here forums who'll eventually go away if noone starts to debate them.

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Guest

Yeah, those people that want above 15 fps are real jerks!

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that is most decidedly not who or what we are talking about.it is the incessant negativity about "the app being crap" or "SPx being crap, remove it", or "Aces doesn't care" or...I think with Gary's( Reset MCP Alt's ) excellent benchmark there is proof of the value of the service packs. And with the tweak guides there is enough information for FSX users to tweak the app and get good results. If, using that information, you do not get what the rest of us get - it is your local problem so please do not come out with global statements like the above.Or, if we cannot do that, can we designate a day a week to get the ya-ya's out? Maybe call it "Trash-Talk-Tuesday", and the rest of us can be gone on Tuesdays. :-).

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Guest RichardL

No, what some, no, make that what I am writing about is a new system with Q6600 CPU, dual hard drives, 4 gig ram, Vista64 OS, plus ......, and I can't run SP2 due to constant crashes. Uninstall SP2 and all is fine. My apologies if that makes me a troll.Richard

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Guest PPSFA

Phil, I can't speak for anyone else, but if I didn't have the 'trash' to read with my coffee every morning, I'd be stuck with the NY Times, and that just aint gonna happen :-)I look at the forums now as entertainment, since my FSX SP2 with all addons doesn't need any tweaks.Thanks to you and your team for all the hard work, I'm sorta in the business and can appreciate what you folks have to deal with.

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Guest RichardL

How would I know that Jim? I can only download and install what is provided for me to use.Has someone that is authorized to comment, from MS or Nvidia, stated in writing that the Nvidia drivers are causing FSX crashing problems?I'm open for suggestions though I do have the latest certified video driver from Nvidia installed.Richard

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Yes, indeed there have been multiple threads on nV crashes. Yes, it looks like to Aces this is an nV issue and has been reported to nV, as stated on my blog. Yes, I reported that nV needs crisp bug reports sent to them with OS, FSX revision, part, driver rev, and exact repro steps.what nV part do you have?and what is the exact problem you have, to see if it matches the threads?

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>Yeah, those people that want above 15 fps are real jerks! Alex,there have always been self-appointed I-speak-the-truth-you-re-all-moron blokes, there always will be.Ignore them, they're trolls in these here forums who'll eventually go away if noone starts to debate them.:)Marco

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What I wouldn't give for the time to just fly or complain about things on here.When I do fly, it's mostly VFR offline, just buzzing around the Shenandoahs or the Pacific coast just listening to the wind and relaxing. Flight Sim is probably the least stressful hobby I have.But to answer the question, I've found a spot where I get about 20-25fps in nearly every situation, with acceptable graphics, so I'm good with what I have.Of course, I also have my "development" settings, which is essentially everything turned all the way down just to load and run as fast as possible while I'm running VS and whatever else in the background.

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Guest RichardL

GeForce 8800GT with Nvidia WHQL 169.25 driver, dated 20 Dec 2007.Might help to visit the Crash-To-Desktop forum just above this one. Full of CTD issues. I copied the information below from a post I may in the CTD forum:Add me to the CTD list. Happens with a new system build and fresh installs of FSX/SP1/SP2/Vista 64. No tweaks other than disabling red brake, stall, pause, etc messages. System is:ASUS P5EQ66004GB Crucial PC8500 1066 2x hard drives, one for OS and one for FSXBFG 8800 GT with latest nvidia driversI see similar CTDs are reported above. Black screen, reloading of texture files, etc. Sometimes this happen within a minute or two of launching FSX or after an hour of flying.So far I have seen CTDs from:ntdll.dllsimconnect.dllapi.dllmsvcr80.dllterrain.dll

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I must say that I have never had a CTD or BSOD with sp2. Tools menu went away, but came back with sdk sp2. Don't run any addons ,so I can't speak to that. Can't OC so I get to run everything stock...My box is only middle-of-the-road now. And Vista t'boot.Bob

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Guest Stoopy

Fully agreed. I started using FSeconomy with FSX and it's totally addicting, on top of that I do a lot of FS-Recorder flying to create formation aerobatics, this all demands a smooth app that is crash-free and stable, and it's achieved with SP2/Accell...system runs without rebooting, CTD'ing or BSOD'ing from dawn until midnight over weekends like this. I mention only in passing that there's an ATI vid card installed.

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Guest

they are if they behave the way many of them do, with constant abusive and negative posts instead of simply asking for and accepting advise.My system is hardly state of the art (low end Core 2 Duo, low end videocard) but I get consistently over 20fps (got it locked there, it's quite enough) in any scenery with any aircraft (even performance heavy addons) with everything set to medium/high.And I've done nothing to optimise that system in any way, no overclocking or shutting down background programs to get that.So I can only conclude that people who can't get that either have highly deficient systems they're overstressing because of incorrect expectations or they have problems that lie well outside the scope of FS itself.

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Jeroen, your posts lack empathy for the troubles of others. I suspect that makes sense to you because you object to these others tone. Truth is that your response style assures their negative posts will continue. One breeds the other.If we want the naysayers to soften, we need to model what that looks like. It starts here with posts from old-timers like you. How bout some sympathy that no matter how you take care of things, its hard for some folks.Best,Bob

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Well said Bob, and I agree completely. I've been on the receiving end of a few such condescending posts and there's just no need for that. People come here looking for help because lets face it, FSX is hard on the system no matter what your hardware is. If you happen to be blessed with detailed knowledge of the system, software, and bottlenecks and how to overcome them it's still good to remember that you're one of the few that have such knowledge. Consider yourself lucky and perhaps help others if you are so inclined. Kudos to the many that do endeavour to help others solve their issues, they're certainly under no obligation to.And since when is being an "FPS Junkie" a bad thing? :) Framerate in my opinion is the most crucial element in the proper simulation of flight. It's all well and good to trundle along VFR in the 172 and get 20 fps if that's your thing, it's fine for that situation. But what about those who fly helos, fighters, aerobatic aircraft, or even enjoy heavy cloud IFR flight? Those are cases where high FPS, at *least* 30+, is crucial and it's really an uphill battle. On top of that lies the unfortunate fact that few developers consider the hit that their high poly aircraft and VCs have on performance outside the singleplayer experience and that can be really frustrating for multiplayer lovers. Get one or two addon aircraft on screen and watch the frames just tumble. SP1 & 2 helped a lot, but it still isn't enough for some, even if they have great hardware and a tuned OS.And make no mistake about the full screen CTDs with SP2, they're very real and very widespread, affecting a wide range of nvidia cards from the 7 & 8 series. This isn't a case of a very vocal minority. I lost eight multiplayer compatriots from that problem alone when Acceleration came out. They simply couldn't run SP2 without crashing whenever they accessed a menu. A few have returned after switching to ATI out of sheer frustration. Anyway, unless Intel's Nahalem turns out to give moore's law a really sound thumping I suspect we'll be fighting fps issues until the day FS11 is released, maybe beyond, and that means as much tweaking as flying for some. FSX is what it is and I absolutely love it but there are certainly days when I throw a few nasty words its way. I try to keep them to myself though. ;)-mike

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Guest

If I lack empathy it's because of years of being exposed to the style of abusive posts that are typical of the "complainers".If someone has a genuine problem and and asks for help without immediately launching into tirades about how "evil" Microsoft is or how "FS sux" I'd be the first to try and help them if I could.But what I ever more detect is an attitude among people to seek to blame others for their problems and not expect help, resulting in them immediately becoming agressive and abusive towards the very people who could possibly help them but because of that attitude loose all interest in doing so.This is far from isolated to the FS community btw. I'm quite active in several software development forums and there we see the same thing happening, and to an even greater degree (no doubt because the average age of the FS user is higher than that of the average beginning programmer who's often no more than a spoiled highschool brat).There it takes the character of kids not just blaming their own errors on their tools (which is the majority of "complaints" about FS and Windows) but kids demanding to have their homework assignments done for them and becoming abusive when they're told that's not how things are done (the equivalent maybe of people coming here requesting "replacement keys" for commercial products and starting to cuss and swear at people when they're told to contact their reseller).

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Troll , Trolling , and Forum posts , this term first appears in Fraternity of Vagabonds (1561) to characterize the first four of twenty-five types of disobedient male servants or "knaves." my thanks to Wikipedia for thatSome may characterize a post as trolling, others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial, the term is often used to discredit an opposing position, or its proponent as seems the case post RTM of our claim to flame FSX.Problems and the solutions posted in forums fortunately don

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Guest Bob Z

Well said.Actually I'm in both groups.My FS9 has 580,000 AI flight legs manually added along with parking spots to accomodate all of them at every AP they land at and many other AFCAD adjustments. I also have a respectable amount of scenery and I suspect that about 70% of my FS time was spent adding and tweaking. It was really quite enjoyable, but I can't bring myself to go thru it again at this point for FSX.As a result, my FSX is a stock install and I can't remember the last time I've used the shift-z or had a CTD.If I counted up all the hours I spent tweaking FS9 and paid myself a virtual minimum wage........well, I don't want to think about it.

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I think what we are talking about is having respect for everyone's opinion. If you truly dislike something, it is completely possible to state that opinion in a way that is respectful to others. Being polite and respectful seems to be a thing of the past. You get called a troll when you disrespect. I have been called a liar because i like FSX. How many of you have run RTM FS9, and then run RTM FSX. Even stock, FSX is a clear winner. Perfect? Um...no. But way better.Bob

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Yeah, those people that want above 15 fps are real jerks! Buy better hardware. It's that simple. Craig

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