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thrakete

anybody else have problems with piper j3?

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just click on the link in there. it seems the piper oscillates on the runway in takeoff and landing.

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you can see that I have a very tuff time handling this apparent beast thanks to fsx. I doubt a real piper handles like that. Its like there is 500 lb weights on each wingtip.

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No, but I have a fair bit of real world flying experience in a variety of light aircraft (a dozen or so different make/models).The most salient thing I see in that video is you're badly over-controlling, which I strongly suspect is caused by you not detecting the need for correction early enough. This in turn may be caused by your vantage point. If you are trying to fly it from Spot View as the video suggests, that'll do it. If you fly from the cockpit, the need for correction will become apparent much sooner.As a suggestion: when you detect the need for correction, don't try to immediately "get back" to the original flight path. Instead, stop whatever is happening and get it back to going in a straight line and try to keep it that way. I know, it's easier said than done but, trust me, it works. Also, try applying only *half* as much correction as your instincts suggest.I use the 2D cockpit only. I have 4 buttons on my stick (MS FFB2) assigned to "pan" the view up, down, left and right. When taking off, I pan the view down (some call this "raising the seat") to the point where the horizon is just visible over the cowling. When you ease the throttle up, keep the nose lined up on a fixed point over the nose. It takes some practice but it works.In the real world, you can't "pan" the view down so you use your peripheral vision to determine your alignment relative to the edges of runway. That takes even more practice but it works. Thousands of Fighter Pilots did it during WW2.Cal - CYXX

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hey thanks for your detailed response. so you think the vanilla piper cub handles like the real thing?and yes spot view was the way I was flying it.and yes it required full rudder/aileron just to keep that thing from turning/rolling.and the landing is crazy as well. I will try again from cockpit but its going to be harder to see what my controls are doing.thanks again.I flew in a cub when I was a kid thanks to a guy in our church. been hooked on flying ever since!(and this was the airport we flew at as well. indiantownroad X58)

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The Piper Cub is a "taildragger", which means that it has two landing gear far forward, and a third mounted on the back of the fuselage under the tail. You can learn more about taildraggers by looking up that term in the FSX Learning Center. This will help you with a 3-point landing, which will definitely help you land better.The Cub is a light aircraft, so it responds aggressively to controls on the ground. Don't be surprised if you find yourself in the dreaded "ground loop"! Since you need a lot of finesse to taxi a Cub, I think it's actually one of the more challenging aircraft to fly in FSX, although it's also my favourite.Your taxi: Any time you seem to be trying to "steer" your aircraft, you are going too fast. The trick to steer the FSX Cub on the ground is to go so slowly that you cannot possibly make a mistake. Since you cannot see past the nose, you pick a visual bit on the horizon off to one side to use as a marker to keep you going straight. Once you are on a runway, you can use the edge to judge which way is straight. Unlike a car, you don't need to see forward to drive. What's to hit? If there's something on the ground you're going to hit, you have no business taxi-ing there. Your take-off:You are spending too much time on the runway. The longer your wheels are moving fast on the ground, the more unstable a taildragger will get. The Cub is meant for flying, not driving. You can gun the engine right away. At around 50 mph (the cub guage doesn't do knots), you have enough speed to lift off.Be aware that your engine produces enough torque to really pull the lightweight Cub around. Counter the torque which will pull you left with your right rudder. It really helps to have a good set of rudder pedals. Typically, I will count 1 - The Engine I Will Gun - 2 - 3 - FULL RUDDER! That seems to get the timing right without pedals. Your landing:You look like you are coming in on a crosswind. Honestly, this is the very hardest thing to do. Turn off the wind so that you can nail three-point landings. You want all three wheels to kiss the ground at once. Again, you will fight some torque as you land, so be prepared with rudder. For a three point landing, you will want to approach the runway high and a little flat at 60 mph. This is the time that you will actually see the runway. Memorize what you see so that you can land without visual cues. If there's something that's going to block your landing, don't land there! Cut your engine and allow your airspeed to be maintained through losing altitude. If you can't maintain at least 50, you wan't land properly, gun the engine and go around.Once you are about 10 feet off of the ground, pull the nose up into the same attitude you use when it is about to take off, about 5 degrees up. If you do this correctly, you will rotate through the stall speed, which means that instead of gaining altitude you will lose it, and also your speed will drop as the wings start to act as brakes. The Cub stalls gently, so you will stall through those last ten feet onto the runway. Your speed will be s slow that the airplane ought to stop itself within a couple of Cub-lengths or so. The J-3 can take off and land on a postage stamp! The 2-wheel landing you use helps when you need to see the runway as you land, and it also helps when you are flying in a crosswind, as you get more rudder in the air. It's also a much harder landing to stick than the 3-point landing. In FSX, I would not reccommend 2-point landings without a TrackIR and good rudder pedals, as they are very difficult. Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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In my opinion the Piper Cub has the most realistic FDE in the whole game!The jets aren't that different in the game and barrel rolling them just isn't possible in reality as easy as it is possible to do in the sim.I wonder if they put the same .air file that they used in the Cessna in the jets to get it out on time?

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You might want to take a peek at Bill Lyon's J3 Cub. I have had it for years and personally much prefer it to the MSFS default version.Good luck:RTH

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>hey thanks for your detailed response. so you think the>vanilla piper cub handles like the real thing?The problem with Flight Sim is that a critical interface is missing and cannot be replicated at this level of technology / price.The interface between the aircraft seat and your pants.As noted above, it is very, very easy to get into an overcontrolling, over reacting situation in FS - because you cannot sense the start of the divergent movement. It has to already been developed and inprogress before you see the reaction on the screen.I have a hard time with these tail draggers, but when an FS buddy takes me along in his Cessna 120, it's much easier to feel and understand what the aircraft is doing.You can feel and work the pedals before you ever see the movement.

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"I have a hard time with these tail draggers".Oh how true for all of us to start with, but an old time philosophy by many was that everyone should solo in one. You learn to pay attention on the ground as well as in the air.My first experience was with a friend from work that had a Cessna 170. I had recently received my single engine commercial ticket and guess I probably thought I was hot stuff. As I taxied to the gas pump, I was 90 degrees from the direction I intended to go three times and had to stop and start over. What a humbling (and embarressing) experience!Later, I acquired a J3 cub of my own, learned to fly it (on the ground as well) and loved it dearly. Used it for flight instruction. Charged $8.00 per hour, dual or solo. Wouldn't buy two gallons of fuel now days. Spent a bit of time in your 120, along with a 140 and Luscomb or two. Very fond memories.Happy flying:RTH

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I had a few hours flying the real life J3, both the standard 65hp and an 85hp version. The FSX version is very close to what I remember of the real airplane. The real J3 Cub was CG sensitive and had to be flown from the rear seat if you were solo, but if you observed this restriction it was very stable, forgiving and docile. Like most very light, low MOI airplanes however, it did not happily tolerate "stick jerking" during landing or take off. The FS9 J3 version however, I found to be completely unmanageable with it's original flight dynamics file. It would flip over on it's back in just a trace of wind, or even during a standard magneto check.I have not tried to fly the FSX model from the spot view.Regards,Thrakete

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I see many have responded already.Your take off of the Tailwheel is not right. As soon as you gather a little speed, you need to move the stick forward to lift the tail wheel up and continue the roll for take off on the front two wheels only with the tail wheel sticking up. You don't want that castering tailwheel to create problems for you. Then work the rudders to maintain straight line on the runway. The tail wants to whip around and come in the front. The Center of gravity of that aircraft is behind you. Thats like trying to move/throw a dart backwards where the CG point wants to side wipe and come forward. So what you are seeing is the real tailwheel behavior.After I got my PPSL (On a Cessna 172) I started Tailwheel. It was like learning to fly all over again. (Taxing, take offs and Landings were the most difficult)Manny

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its hard to believe that this J3 cub was a trainer! what is also hard to believe is that It was this difficult to land and takeoff. im talking differential breaks at times dont even stop it. or sometimes do. i dont remember the rudder peddles going crazy when my friend took me up on his. of course I was just a kid without a clue of flying.ive had no problems with p51(except engine breaking) but thats totally different story.maule-piece of cake. I really think the cub is poorly modeled on here. I just dont think people actually fly it much.

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If you post messages on AVSIM because you think everyone will agree with you, well, there's an education right there. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.As I said before, the J3 is my very favorite FSX aircraft. It's the one I will pick up and fly time and time again, and I see dozens of aircraft as a reviewer. Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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I have ssme problem as original poster. Thanks to everyone for the instructions. I certainly will try them. Also, I have searched the library for Bill Lyons j3 and can't find it. Where is it? Don

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well I dont expect anyone to agree with me. all though someone already does. just really wanted to make sure that the flight model of this cub is actually true to life. ground looping seems way over exaggerated to me thats all. even a P51 mustang is easy compared to the cub.

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