I was flying Kona (PHKO) to Honolulu (PHNL) again tonight, after a successful flight last night. I wanted to focus more on my approach speeds and flaps. The sim had something else in mind - it thought I should focus on missed approaches 😄

I'm using the approach to 4R below. This route is setup via Simbrief, imported into the aircraft and I walked through the legs on the nav display before take off and it all looked perfect.

- I checked the ILS freq was programmed in both radios, the CRS for the runway (42) was on both sides of the MCP, the PFD showed IIUM in the upper left.

- AP was enabled, with VNAV, LNAV, and A/T enabled.

- I dialed in 3000 at T/D to get to Alana which it achieved just like last night... no problem.  It then starts to turn towards DEBRY and I select APP mode on the MCP and dial in 1500 feet altitude.

- It then proceeds to fly right over the runway at 3000 feet. 

What did I miss this time around that I somehow got right last night?

Any ideas would really help avoid a repeat. Thanks!

My guess is that you didn't get the lower altitude dialed in quickly enough after ALANA, and dropped out of VNAV Path.

  If the aircraft is in VNAV, it will always still honor an altitude set in the MCP.  If you reach a point where the VNAV path wants to keep descending but a constraining altitude set in the MCP prevents the descent, the vertical mode will revert to either VNAV ALT or ALT HOLD; which one depends on the options installed in the aircraft (you can select either one via the EFB panel options.).  

If this mode reversion occurs before you get a lower altitude set, the aircraft is not going to continue descending until you get back in VNAV Path (or another vertical mode like level change).  If you're in ALT HOLD you need to reselect the VNAV button, and if you're in VNAV ALT you need to press Altitude Intervention (a small black button next to the MCP altitude window.)

So if this guess is correct, you fell out of VNAV Path after ALANA (really, after YEGPU) and would have seen the aircraft get progressively higher relative to the VNAV path (seeing this via the vertical deviation indicator on the ND as well as on the right side of the PFD).  Sounds like you selected approach quickly, but assuming you have the option enabled that won't allow glideslope capture until localizer capture (and you should), you'd already have been above glideslope by the time you joined the localizer, so the plane would indeed just sit at 3,000ft.

Two takeaways: 

1.  Why set 3,000 in the MCP for ALANA, unless it was an ATC constraint?  If you're simulating that you're cleared for the approach and you want to stay in VNAV until approach mode captures (a good plan in this scenario), just set the final approach fix altitude in the MCP.  Assuming you've verified all the altitude restrictions are correctly coded on the legs page, you know VNAV won't bust any restrictions so you can just set the FAF altitude and let it do its thing.  If you fly this again and try it that way, I bet you'll find you're right on the loc and glideslope as LNAV/VNAV turn you onto final, and with approach mode armed, you'll see VOR/LOC and GS capture simultaneously. 

2.  A big one in general to avoid "what's it doing now?" type questions - always, ALWAYS reference the Flight Mode Annunciator (FMA) across the top of your PFD to know what the auto flight is doing.  This is where you'll see these mode changes (or not) that I'm talking about.  I can't tell you how hard we try to drill this into the brains of new airline pilots; ONLY the FMA gives you an accurate picture of which modes are armed and active.  Looking at which buttons are illuminated on the MCP is a completely unreliable way to determine which mode you're in / have armed.  All an illuminated MCP button means is that the button can be pressed again to de-select that mode, but you have no way of knowing what the airplane is doing by referencing the MCP.  As we say, the MCP indications are requests; the FMA is reality. 

Also, note that VNAV will only be accurate with an accurate altimeter setting, so make sure you get local altimeter setting set before the approach. 

Also ALSO, I can highly recommend the use of the Vertical Situation Display (VSD) for procedures using VNAV (we actually have mandated that the pilot monitoring have it displayed for all approaches, but I've become a believer and I have it up for every approach whether I'm PF or PM).  It's a fantastic way to graphically monitor descent path performance.  On the Max, you select it by pressing the VSD button on the EFIS control panel.  Its use is self explanatory and I think you'll like it.

Edited August 7, 2025Aug 7 by Stearmandriver

3 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

I select APP mode on the MCP and dial in 1500 feet altitude.

Stearman has you covered above but I wanted to point out again that the above sequence of events is sub optimal! 

Depending on different ac delivery options and software sim coding, once you select APP mode that MCP altitude becomes redundant. Once glide slope GS is captured and annunciated on the pfd the plane ignores that setting. As Stearman points out much better to set the ils capture altitude much earlier (usually when permitted by atc with your approach clearance) then once you are down there then press app. Once app captures gs you then set the mcp altitude to the higher missed approach altitude. 

If you are above capture by more than a few 100 feet by dme distance you need go missed anyway unless you don't mind subjecting your passengers to a roller-coaster late capture dip! 

Some planes like the Airbus just won't allow capture above correct final approach fix altitude so need careful monitoring on descent /arrival /approach. Stearman will confirm but the Boeings (in sim) seem to have the ability to dive to capture a glidescope sometimes even when over 1000 ft above it (seems sketchy to me!). 

This is why I usually arm the speedbrake after gs capture /gear down /final flaps as it comes in handy getting me ready for final too often with vnav calculations often being inadequate (hello bizarre msfs random winds). 

As stated above I usually will already have my ILS altitude already set on the MCP or the FCU if it's an Airbus well before activating approach and I usually try to make sure that before I activate approach mode I am at or slightly below the ILS path.

Once approach mode has been activated whether it be Airbus or Boeing I will then dial in the go around altitude since as was stated once you activate approach mode any altitude can be set on the MCP or FCU and it will be "ignored" in APP mode.

Two big things that you didn't mention on the initial post was confirming first the loc capture and then if you noticed the glidepath active and intercepting from below. 

8 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

but the Boeings (in sim) seem to have the ability to dive to capture a glidescope sometimes even when over 1000 ft above it (seems sketchy to me!). 

It is sketchy.  It's a real world option to allow glideslope capture both from above, and before localizer capture.  Neither of these are things you'd really ever want to do, and I don't know of an operator that uses them.  But because the option exists, it exists for both the PMDG and the iFly.  It's very worth turning off but depending on livery flown, may be on by default.

30 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

Two big things that you didn't mention on the initial post was confirming first the loc capture and then if you noticed the glidepath active and intercepting from below. 

Yeah, that's because I wasn't paying attention to it... just assumed it would capture the G/S and I was focused on my speeds and flaps deployment for this landing. 

9 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

My guess is that you didn't get the lower altitude dialed in quickly enough after ALANA, and dropped out of VNAV Path.

 

Thanks... I suspect you are right. Mentally, I was separating the "decent" from the "approach" and treating those differently from an altitude setting perspective. I will just dial in the FAF altitude on decent from now on.  

For your point #2... I need to better understand what all the terminology at the top of the PFD means... exactly. I need to look into finding a video that covers that in more detail.

And as for the vertical display, that is fantastic, and I was using it, which is how I realized I had completely missed the glide slope 🙂