March 20Mar 20 Hello, I'm writing to the "Professionals" of airliners like the A320 or 737-800. When I approach EGLL via STAR ALES1H through BIG to land either East or West, I adhere to the speed and altitude restrictions (see chart). So, from ETVAX (FL180), I need to arrive at BIG at FL070 and a speed of 220 KIAS. However, I always arrive too fast and too high at BIG unless I manage the rate of descent with a severe V/S and "stay on the speedbrakes." Do you have any advice, or better yet, a solution? Thank you in advance. Config : AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D - MSI PRO B850-S WIFI6E - RAM G.Skill 2 x 32 Go DDR5 6000 MHz CL30 - MSI GeForce RTX 5080 16G VENTUS 3X OC PLUS - 2 WQHD (2560x1440) screens and only one of which is for MSFS
March 20Mar 20 Note the MAX 250KIAS. You can't exceed that but you can certainly go slower which makes energy management a lot simpler. MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4 | i5 13600KF | G.Skill Ripjaws V 32GB 3600MHz | RTX 3080 (12GB) | Samsung 980 M.2 NVMe 500GB | Samsung 980 M.2 NVMe 1TB | Samsung 850EVO 500GB | Crucial P3+ 2TB NVMe | 2TB Seagate HDD | Deepcool AK500 CPU Cooler | Thrustmaster T16000M HOTAS | CH Yoke | Various Winctrl hardware | 21:9 1440p UW monitor | Win 11 23H2 build | MSFS2020 | Tony K.
March 20Mar 20 1 hour ago, Area said: Hello, I'm writing to the "Professionals" of airliners like the A320 or 737-800. When I approach EGLL via STAR ALES1H through BIG to land either East or West, I adhere to the speed and altitude restrictions (see chart). So, from ETVAX (FL180), I need to arrive at BIG at FL070 and a speed of 220 KIAS. However, I always arrive too fast and too high at BIG unless I manage the rate of descent with a severe V/S and "stay on the speedbrakes." Do you have any advice, or better yet, a solution? Thank you in advance. Yes, I think you would generally need speedbrakes to make FL70 at BIG. It's 30.5 nm from ETVAX to BIG. By the 3:1 rule, you would expect to lose about 10,000 feet in that distance. But you need to lose 11,000 feet, so that already implies you probably need some speedbrake. And on top of that you need to lose some speed. ATC probably want at least 250 knots at ETVAX, probably more. If there's a strong headwind, that can help. But in general, you shouldn't feel like you're doing something wrong if it's "speedbrakes all the way".
March 22Mar 22 Here is my opinion on this - Do remember that I have not flown IRL into EGLL before, However have flown into EGLL countless times on networks like Vatsim where they adopt IRL techniques/procedures. ALESO1H arrival typically wants you to be FL180 by ETVAX - the track mileage from ETVAX to BIG is about 30.5 miles. Now if I use my 3 degrees rule of thumb - for 30 miles I can roughly loose around 9000ft. So that already puts me high at ETVAX (11000ft to loose in 30 miles). Mind you the actual descent after ETVAX will be as directed by ATC IRL - if its busy or if they are holding at BIG then they typically slow you down to 250kts which makes loosing altitude a bit of struggle unless you use speed brakes. I have flown as passenger before into EGLL and arriving from that direction I typically see spoilers deployed for most part of the descent, Speaking to few pilots who fly there frequently - it is very common to use speed brakes to manage the profile. During my ATPL ground school - one of the instructor's opinion was that if you use speed brakes during descents then that means that you have messed up your descent profile, However in cases like above - You have to use it as there is no other option, In a jet you can't literally go down and slow at the same time. Speed brakes are your best line of defence. Edited March 22Mar 22 by CAP1234
March 22Mar 22 Author Thank you all for your feedback. During my next EGLL approach, I will definitely apply: "Speed brakes are your best line of defence" Config : AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D - MSI PRO B850-S WIFI6E - RAM G.Skill 2 x 32 Go DDR5 6000 MHz CL30 - MSI GeForce RTX 5080 16G VENTUS 3X OC PLUS - 2 WQHD (2560x1440) screens and only one of which is for MSFS
March 23Mar 23 Commercial Member Funny, you post this as I did this approach twice in the past two days on VATSIM with the INI A340. I had to have the speed brake at 50% or Flight Full for most of the descent from FL180 through to 6000ft on the looping turns for 27L. That is the only way to meet the restrictions short of holding. For any real drivers out there, when EGLL is in East flow on 09L/R, does ATC expect BIG at FL070? Can you use that long west-bound leg to manage energy? - Jordan Jafferjee - AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D | Asus X670-E Pro Prime | Gigabyte RTX4080 Eagle | 64G G.Skill Trident Z.5 DDR5-6000 | Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 | 2x2TB Samsung 990 Pro NVME | NZXT H7 | Win 11 24H2 | TM Warthog Flight Stick + Throttle | Honeycomb Alpha + Bravo | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | Samsung 43" Odyssey Neo G7 | Dell U3415W
March 24Mar 24 13 hours ago, McLaren said: For any real drivers out there, when EGLL is in East flow on 09L/R, does ATC expect BIG at FL070? Can you use that long west-bound leg to manage energy? The Dover and Lydd sectors at London Centre were once among my validations , and while much has changed over the years, certain things remain constant. The level restriction at Biggin is critical for establishing an approach vector and maintaining spacing from the Ockham hold, regardless of whether easterly or westerly operations are in effect. To simplify the process, descent from jet levels typically begins before the French coast, with an early transfer to London Control. As a result, the intermediate levels depicted on the chart are generally irrelevant, since the descent profile will be with ATC guidance. Some things may have changed so more recent real life experiences could vary.
March 24Mar 24 4 hours ago, nippa said: The Dover and Lydd sectors at London Centre were once among my validations Same here, nippa! (retired 2010). Tip for the original poster - take a look at the FR24, you'll see the Heathrow inbounds via BIG, including indicated airspeeds, rates of descent, and levels achieved, really not an issue for them, assuming a timely descent from ATC. Agree with nippa, being able to achieve the minimum holding level and holding speed at BIG (usually FL70, 220kts max), is essential for Heathrow Approach.
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