Hi all,

Those who have missed the thread on XP.org. I have received a direct response from Marco regarding crashes in the newest version and the latest NVidia drivers when it comes to AutoOrtho and XPME - they aren't able to legally support installations running those because they may violate TOS for map data providers. That's the position they have to maintain to cover themselves. He stated he doesn't recommend users run those as they are known to cause stutters and crashes. So LM isn't in the position to further support or troubleshoot those - it's understandable. Essentially, no one is saying you CAN'T run them, but you are very much on your own. It's up to XPME to address those and perhaps NVidia, so bug reports have been filed.

It's unfortunate, but it's where things HAVE to be and I completely understand it.

I did ask him about their definition of "art controls" and whether XWP and Airport Enhancement Package violate that and he said both of those are safe to run. At the end of the day, I have to make a choice to run latest XP and NVidia drivers without crashes and have removed XPME in the meantime. It sucks because it provides graphical terrain better than anything else, but will rely on MSFS 2024 to provide that while XP will be used as a better flight simulation.

I just want to say that we need to be cautious before blaming LR for things that don't work that rely on "hacks". They can't possibly support everything. Right now, if you use 5xx version of NVidia drivers, XP with XPME is stable. It's your choice whether to upgrade to the newest ones and remove XPME or continue to run old drivers. Would love some feedback and opinions.

Art controls are datarefs that start with "sim/private" and can be used to fine tune some aspects of the rendering engine. Since those tweaks may come with drawbacks regarding visuals or program stability, it is discouraged write to them or to use plugins that do so.

Save for the optional traffic density script, X-World does not manipulate art controls and only supplies terrain data and art assets (object files and their textures, facade files, polygon files, etc.). Airport Enhancement Package should only contain replacements for the default art assets. If it also ships a plugin, chances are it may manpulate art controls. Per above, this is discouraged by Laminar, but not much of a big deal.

Regarding rendering engine hacks by programs that alter shader files or add or replace some .dll to send X-Plane rendering data on some detour through some filters, this should be read and understood:

X-Plane Developer

On Hacking Our Engine... Please Don't - X-Plane Developer

In this latest post, Sidney outlines the warnings of plugins hacking in 3D rendering, and best practices...

Edited 23 hours ago23 hr by Bjoern

MEP removed from here...

And that solved yet another problem I was having - not being able to have YALP working ...

I know YALP is probably another plugin that uses non supported techniques but at least it is not violating TOSs...

Edited 21 hours ago21 hr by jcomm

18 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

they aren't able to legally support installations running those because they may violate TOS for map data providers

As an adamant user of MEP this gets my attention. Is that to say the map enhancement provider may not be legally using say bing or Apple Maps or am I misreading? XPlane default terrain is so bad MEP + Simheaven is a basic essential to me. I haven’t had any crashes I can attribute to these so I use it constantly.

1 hour ago, Patco Lch said:

Is that to say the map enhancement provider may not be legally using say bing or Apple Maps or am I misreading?

As far as I understand, Ortho4XP or ME is not downloading any data from Bing or Apple Maps, YOU are (when you use those add-ons).
You may want to read through the terms of service for those services, but I understand that they are actually pretty limited (for free use), in fact it is even illegal to use Google Maps to make airports for X-Plane - using it or Bing for generating scenery on the fly is most likely not within the terms of service - then again, the damage done (in data download costs/lost revenue) is probably very small on a per user base.

But if Microsoft (Bing) or Google (Earth) would find out that Laminar Research promotes or facilitates this breach of the TOS, the case to sue would suddenly be much more lucrative (especially under the US legal system, where fines are set according to he "wealth" of the perpetrator).