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bob.bernstein

Beyond 4.75 m/pixel

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Greetings,I'm very new at the scenery design thing, but I'm trying to apply photoreal textures to my local area. My problem right now is that the textures I end up with after resample.exe are just not high resolution enough to do the .25m resolution images from TerraServer justice. Is there any workaround I can perform to increase the resolution of the textures to something more like 1m/pix?Thanks in advance,James Bryant

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Hi,The resampler limits the textures to 4.8m/pixel! The only way to get higher resolutions is to treat the photo scenery as object scenery. Frame rates will probably go lower but there is no limit on resolution. For that you would need a tool which would produce the objects (triangle surfaces) following the mesh.Regards, Luis

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Thanks for the quick reply.Would you happen to know of such a tool or whether one even exists?

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>Thanks for the quick reply.>>Would you happen to know of such a tool or whether one even>exists?Hi,I do not know of any. Sorry. But VFR scenery of France should be done in that way. This is just a guess. May be other sceneries use the technique. I really do not know.Regards, Luis

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I have used this technique for some tests, but as far as I know there is no good tool to produce it. I wrote my own SCASM file (just a simple grid with the photos on it).Usually the area is also flattened when using this technique, as letting it follow the mesh is almost impossible.I would not try to put the full 0.25 resolution in the scenery either, I tested a 0.16 resolution once, but the only thing my PC did was swapping memory while loading all the textures :).

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FS ARCHITECT can produce this type of scenery if it is compiled with FreeScasm. (Not Scasm)One drawback is that it will not be "mesh following".The other is that you cannot get autogen on the tiles.You cannot make use of transparent tiles either so any FS water will be covered.On the positive side it can be produced with any or all of the night, and seasonal variations.Any resolution can be used.Best,Bjorn

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Hi all.It may be possible to take a ground mesh, export it to DXF in a GIS program, then import it to Gmax. It could then be chopped up, textured at any resolution, and made into BGLs for placement over the mesh. Just a guess.Although there wouldn't be autogen, you could still place objects on it.Dick

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>FS ARCHITECT can produce this type of scenery if it is>compiled with FreeScasm. (Not Scasm)FreeSC code is SCASM code in general, so the technique used should be the same.>One drawback is that it will not be "mesh following".>The other is that you cannot get autogen on the tiles.>You cannot make use of transparent tiles either so any FS>water will be covered.You should be able to use transparant textures as well, I can't understand why the transparancy would not show.Of course this method is not mesh following, that is what the mesh techniques should be used for (with the resolution limitation belonging to that). Autogen is also a mesh feature, so not supported by these "old" style polygons.

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>It may be possible to take a ground mesh, export it to DXF in>a GIS program, then import it to Gmax. It could then be>chopped up, textured at any resolution, and made into BGLs for>placement over the mesh. Just a guess.I think it will be very hard to get this to follow the mesh exactly. You would almost need to flatten the mesh below to get the correct behavior. Otherwise the mesh could peek through your GMax model (especially when the user uses a different mesh then you expected).I still think that high resolution on small areas can best be used on flat areas and for the rest we should live with the 4.8 meter resolution.

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Hi Arno,Just to clarify.Transparent tiles will show, but you will also get serious flickering thus making it useless.This is a problem with all ground scasm polys and is usually fixed with "zbias" but I cannot find any way to do so with the FreeScasm code generated and until then only non-transparent bitmaps can be used.Maybe you or anyone else can come up with an idea how to get the bitmaps "zbiased", thus non flickering, so I post the FreeSc code for a photoproject generated by FS ARCHITECT here:; Generated by FS Architect 2002; Version 3.10; Sunday February 08, 2004; Hand editing this file will not change the Architect document ; from which it was assembled. Header( 1 65:42:35.994238 65:22:36.005706 22:31:31.710263 21:43:18.289872 ) LatRange( 65:22:36.005706 65:42:35.994238 ) Flatten( 20.726400 4 65:38:37.602909 22:01:51.432258 65:37:58.398501 22:15:53.992947 65:28:45.972517 22:16:5.495588 65:29:15.672820 21:58:12.883974 ); -----------------------------------------------------------------------------; Textured Grid: Photo Texture Grid 2 Area( b 65:34:29.378549 22:08:20.476782 20 ) LayerCall( :layer 4 ) Jump( : ):layer RefPoint( rel :TagPhotoGrid 0.304800 65:34:29.378549 22:08:20.476782 v1= 37040 v2= 10241 ) RotatedCall( :rot 0 0 5.80 ) Jump( : ):rot LoadBitmap( 0 160 0 0 0 0 LLA0000.bmp ) Points( 0 -15120 0 -16800 -11760 0 -16800 -11760 0 -13440 -15120 0 -13440 ) TexPoly( 0 32767 0 0 0 0 0 1 255 0 2 255 255 3 0 255 ) LoadBitmap( 0 160 0 0 0 0 LLA0001.bmp ) Points( 0 -11760 0 -16800 -8400 0 -16800 -8400 0 -13440 -11760 0 -13440 ) TexPoly( 0 32767 0 0 0 0 0 1 255 0 2 255 255 3 0 255 ) LoadBitmap( 0 160 0 0 0 0 LLA0002.bmp ) Points( 0 -8400 0 -16800 -5040 0 -16800 -5040 0 -13440 -8400 0 -13440 ) TexPoly( 0 32767 0 0 0 0 0 ....... and so on for all bitmaps Return Return:TagPhotoGrid EndA

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Hi Bjorn,This code is 100% correct, it already makes use of the LayerCall command that should prevent the flickering.Are you sure that you have flattened the area correct? Otherwise you would still get flickering.

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Thank you Pascal,I have just read the help file of LaboMesh and now, I also remember to hear about TexPoly. LaboMesh seems to be a very complete tool to generate mesh, landclass, VTP lines and other things.Kind Regards, Luis

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>Greetings,>>I'm very new at the scenery design thing, but I'm trying to>apply photoreal textures to my local area. My problem right>now is that the textures I end up with after resample.exe are>just not high resolution enough to do the .25m resolution>images from TerraServer justice. Is there any workaround I can>perform to increase the resolution of the textures to>something more like 1m/pix?>>Thanks in advance,>James BryantHi,I used to do a lot of >1m Photoreal, many of us in the TerraBuilder forum labored a great deal using "back-door" techniques to get it right using older commands in and upto FS2k2, now FS2K4 has rendered those useless and there is the "sick" feeling deep in my head I get when seeing these post asking how to do it etc.All FSteam would have to do (as should have already been done when FS2k4 was released) would be to allow the display of 512x512 and 1024x1024 textures with the present photoreal/mesh terrain by means of the patch and we could easily be proccessing 2.4m and 1.2m sceneries!Everyone...say PLEASE!!!1meter scenery in FS2k2:http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/ecto1.jpg http://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/ecto2.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~pleatzaw/images/ecto6.jpg

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I think my SNA2004 is at a very similar resolution and it works in FS2004. Done in simple SCASM code. IF anyone wants it I can post it later...CheersShez

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Oops, you are correct. I missed that error. That could indeed result in strange problems, as the code is not exited correct.

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>All FSteam would have to do (as should have already been done>when FS2k4 was released) would be to allow the display of>512x512 and 1024x1024 textures with the present photoreal/mesh>terrain by means of the patch and we could easily be>proccessing 2.4m and 1.2m sceneries!I certainly hope that we will see this increase in future versions, although it can have a big performance influence of course (2.4 meter resolution already requires 4 times more memory). Let's hope they increase it at least to 2.4 and hopefully also to 1.2 in the future.But I don't expect it to be in the patch already, as it does not really seems to be a critical problem, but we'll see :).

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>I think my SNA2004 is at a very similar resolution and it>works in FS2004. Done in simple SCASM code. IF anyone wants it>I can post it later...But that area is flat or does it have altitude in it as well?

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Yes you are right. No terrain mesh there. I forgot that the discussion is on mesh terrain. I was replying to the photo-tiles observation.Shez

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Yep, then it is indeed possible. I use a SCASM grid myself as well to place 1 meter resolution photos around an airport. But that is only an option if you can make the area you are working on flat.

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That does the beg the question why one would need a lot of undulating terrain to be covered in 1m photo tiles around an airport. Airports are usually built on pretty flat surfaces. The way to do this would be to use SCASM polys under the airport (1m res) and photo-terrain on the outside (4.75m res),where possibly an undulating surface might exist. The effect would be more than adequate.Shez

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I agree with you, but I also know people who want to use 1 meter data over an entire country. In that case you run in the altitude problem. Around most airports you can indeed flatten it very well (unless there is a mountain very close or so).

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I wish that you had not shown those pictures!!! They really bring up disturbing memories of how it was in "the old days"... I may have to reinstall FS2002 just to enjoy the REAL photoreal scenery......I assume that your groups release will show as above in FS2002 and "blurred" in FS2004? Is October a good release date?Dick Boley @KLBE

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Been a while, I'm forgetting....what back door did we used to use? From the standpoint of terrain, the limit of 4.75 m/pixel has been imposed ever since the lod grid system started (fs98? certainly at least by fs2000).Of course, we've been able to used polygons on the ground from early on...still can, and display any resolution you want over flat area.I do remember you testing a substitution technique by replacing a 256x256 tile with an double resolution 2 up of the same area, but later tests showed that only the 1st mip image was actually displaying. I suppose its irrelevant, but its troubling me that I can't remember that back door.Bob B

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