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Christopher Low

Am I getting bored of flight simulation ?

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I have just completed a flight in the Beechjet from Boeing Field to Sanderson Field, and to be perfectly honest, I didn't particularly enjoy it. It is something that I am feeling more and more these days when using Flight Unlimited 3. Am I getting bored of it ? Am I just getting fed up with flight simulation as a whole ? I just don't know.Perhaps I need a totally new flight simulator ? I certainly would like to be able to fly over a highly accurate rendition of the UK, and this is what annoys me. The VFR Photographic scenery in MSFS keeps tempting me. The VFR Terrain package provides a high resolution terrain mesh for this scenery, and Gary Summons' magnificently detailed UK2000 airports can also be added. The end result ? An amazingly detailed UK scenery area to explore.MSFS also provides an astonishing variety of highly detailed planes to fly.....and I really would like to be able to fly the likes of the Avro Vulcan, Bae Jetstream 41, Tupolev 134, and Airbus A319....to superbly detailed versions of Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester, Edinburgh, East Midlands......and many more. I want to be able to fly over the Lake District National Park (on my doorstep), and see familiar landmarks like Lake Windermere, Coniston Old Man, and even Hoad Monument (a lighthouse type structure that overlooks my home town of Ulverston). I want to be able to fly across the rugged expanse of Scotland, along the length of Loch Ness, or take a short trip across the Irish Sea to the Isle of Man.To be perfectly honest, I long for an FS2006 that includes many of the features of FU3. Stuff like VFR cockpit views, decent ground handling, better external viewpoint controls, and flight models based on real world physics.To be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure if this will ever happen.Maybe I just need a rest from flight simulation. Perhaps I should concentrate on Grand Prix Legends for a while, and start my adventures in the world of Doom 3.Oh, and Half Life 2 isn't very far away, either :-)Chris Low.

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I haven't been as active as I used to be either. I complete a flight on most days but "real life" takes most of my time right now.I'm not bored but I'm busy :-) So, how about flight simulation versus other PC games? In my case that's easy to sort out -- I've got no other games, just several flight simulators. I might take to other sims but I'm definitly not a gamer. I'll get a more powerful PC soon and hope to see smooth performance and high fps in all kinds of weather. However, I've got no desire to see goblins in the castle of the doomed :-)Hans Petter

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I know I'm not a Garry Summons, and I certainly don't want you to stick with FU3 if you're getting sick of it. But I think you may have just accidentally hurt a lot of people who have put enormous effort into developing the UKS region. I know that you haven't had the chance to install and use UKS yourself, but if you had, I think you would find we are competitive with the GS series. Not in number, but in the detail we have put into the airports. So compare our Cardiff with the GS Cardiff, and I think you would admit our ground detail is far greater and the buildings modelled as accurately (I didn't make the Cardiff package so I chose this as 'neutral' territory). Or compare Hans Petter's (and my) LCA - this is highly accurate. But my Heathrow is less detailed (the first UKS package). And I don't put people or cars around as much - although with Andy's work that is now happening.But if there are things we are doing wrong with the UKS packages, let me know. The UKS team hasn't made it to the locations you mentioned (Ulverston etc), and I am sorry about that. Framerates, and 256 colour palettes, is something I can't fix. But apart from that, if there are areas where I am not being realistic or details are missing, please let me know. Sometimes I have used generic building, or re-used buildings. If this is the problem, let me know and I will fix it. I mean that. I want it to be as accurate and realistic as possible, not as we did in Seattle with generic models (I'm referring to my McChord/Grays/Seattle packages) but with actual representation of what is there, warts and all. Better still, if more people could come in and help, we could go much farther and faster.I am very happy to have constructive criticism, and in the early days Cristian was excellent and looking at a package, then suggesting improvements. With the ground textures, limits in FU3 have made it difficult but if you want the ground textures doubled in resolution, that would be possible.So Chris or anyone, let me know what you want done, or dive in and help, and there is nothing in the FS2000 package that we can't do in FU3, with time and effort. Look at the list of claims for his pro-airports: All buildings accurately modelled and textured Taxiway centreline All the Stands and Air gates* Timed departure board!* Timed Stop Bars Dozens of Dynamic Objects! BRITISH runway markings* Very detailed holding points with timed holds (Wig Wags)* Aircraft guidance boards Night lighting affects and transparent terminal glass* Internal details Perimeter fencing & trees Static Aircraft* INCLUDES FS2004/2 AI TRACK DATA (Ai planes park and taxi correctly)The ones with stars are the things I can't do - mostly to do with gate departures for large jets fortunately. I can do internal detail, but have never thought there was a need - let me know (there is some internal detail at LCA, Stansted and Cardiff). But we have done everthing else.Although I was aware of his work, I had never looked at his site until Chris raised this topic! If you like, I can put up some comparison pictures but that might be a problem in pinching pictures from his site.RobD.

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One thing you can do easily if you don't believe me is check out GS-'s Luton site here:http://www.uk2000scenery.com/main/eggw.htmand compare it with the pics I released for showing the new DH8 from qvdg:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=12694&page=The GS Luton is sparser and more cartoony.This is not intended as an attack on Garry in any way. His work far exceeds my efforts, since he has covered so many airports. And many of his airports are way ahead of ours. But don't ignore the FU3 efforts as if they don't exist either!RobD.

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Rob,This gets gritty, eh?* I agree with the 'cartoony' comment. As you know, I always strive for realism vs. extreme detail. We had this discussion years ago, when you uploaded your first models (and I didn't even know how to make them...). From a pilot's perspective, you DO see some little details here and there but one is usually too busy to pay attention to them. For example, on approach in a sim (any sim...), the scenery gets more blocky as we approach the ground until, just before touchdown, you're flying over 4m squares! In contrast, once I'm below 500ft on (a real) final, I COULDN'T CARE what the ground looks like, I'm waaaay too busy scanning the runway ahead (and the runways adjacent if I'm at Bankstown :-eek). Over-texturing helps here, with a bit of a framerate hit.* MSFS skies are weird. It's not the colour and some shots look better than others. I guess, from a pilot-in-training's perspective, I've NEVER seen a hazeless sky. I've seen very clear ones (over the desert at 10kft) but there are always some bands of differentiation visible in the air. From a glider's perspective, I've been taught to be wary of too-clear skies as one rarely finds thermals in them ;)As for Chris losing interest, I know the feeling. In my case, 2 aircraft I have been working on for soooo long have just frustrated me to the point of giving up (on them, not the sim). For some reason, the GeeBee, Dash-8 and DHC-6 were 'easy'. As Quentin found out with the DH82, simpler aircraft are much harder to accurately model, because the details matter more.I have also had another reason for not doing much with FU3 recently :-roll but I have returned to opening it up every couple of days. I start with a flight, then as soon as I get an idea or see something weird, it's time to shutdown and start playing. I'm not starting any major projects yet but I am looking forward to a lot more time in FU3. I think that, like Chris, I've spent too much time trying to perfect things and not enough time enjoying the fruits of my (and everyone else's) labours :-(Anyway, have a great weekend :-hahRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

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Us Aussies always do things in three halves (local joke)!!!Chris, what I forgot to say was, why don't you go for a TIF with a local flight school. Trust me, taking up a Warrior or 152 makes one realise just how good FU3 is! I was utterly astonished at how much I felt 'at home' in the cockpit (so was the instructor...).If you're too chicken, let the instructor takeoff for you then just follow directions. It's easier than learning to drive a car*, except you can't just stop and get out! * Before you learnt to drive, you hadn't spent 5-6 years training in a simulator...If you settle right into it, don't forget to remind the instructor to land the plane for you - for legal reasons of course ;)Most schools over here do 30 minute TIFs for ~AUD$70-$80, or about UK30 pounds (where's that key?). For a full hour's instruction, you can get individual hours or book a block and get a discount. Every minute in the air counts towards your license too but even if you have no intention of getting a PPL, it'll be the best time you've had in years ;)For about the same cost as a bungy jump or a jetboat ride, a 30 minute TIF over your local area would have to be the best way to spend a Saturday morning ;) In fact, think I might look for a 'window' tomorrow :-waveRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

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Jon,I would be far too scared to even attempt a flight in a small plane. I don't particularly like flying in the real world, and I would prefer to avoid it whenever possible :-)Chris Low.PS. The last time that I was a passenger on an airliner was October 1995.

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Robert,Neither you nor anyone else should feel "hurt" about the comments that I made. I appreciate everything that you have all done with respect to the UK-South region in FU3. However, I am a bit of a perfectionist, and I am starting to crave a PERFECT flight simulation based on UK scenery. That means a COMPLETE rendition of England, Scotland and Wales in high resolution textures, a VERY detailed terrain mesh, a fully integrated ATC system, zillions of colours, special lighting effects (that are only possible with the likes of DirectX 9), wonderfully detailed planes, masses of highly detailed AI planes with realistic colour schemes, and VERY detailed airports with all of those features that we are unable to create in FU3.I do not want to upset anyone here, but FU3 has limitations that prevent anyone from creating the kind of detailed stuff that I am looking for. In my opinion, Gary Summons has created some outstanding airports for MSFS that just cannot be equalled by even the most skilled developers in our FU3 community. FS2004 has an open architecture, and a modern graphics engine (by that, I mean that it was designed to use features that have been integrated into the latest graphics cards). That has allowed Gary to basically recreate each airport in exacting detail. With all due respect, I do not believe that this is possible in FU3.I hope that I do not sound like a traitor here. I have been a Flight Unlimited series supporter for a long time, and there are many aspects of it that are still superior to those of MSFS. It's just that those features don't seem to be quite enough anymore, and that disturbs me. If I lose interest in FU3 (and the MSFS series does not rectify those faults that annoy me), then I am looking at the "no more flight simulation" option.And that would be a great shame :-( Chris Low.

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I think that I will put the Beechjet in the hangar for a while, and try something else. Perhaps Ansgar's 747 would be more of a challenge ? ;-)Chris Low.

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Hello.Bored of flightsims??Well If you need more challenges with fu2 or fu3, you can always try this missions, and test yourself flying them.The link is here:http://www.pierglass.com/mission.htmlA lot of flights both for SEA and SANFRAN region there.All of them will make you busy learning all aspects of LG.software.Take Care.Lars Peter.:-wave

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>Hello.>Bored of flightsims??>>Well If you need more challenges with fu2 or fu3, you can>always try this missions, and test yourself flying them.>>The link is here:>http://www.pierglass.com/mission.html>A lot of flights both for SEA and SANFRAN region there.>>All of them will make you busy learning all aspects of>LG.software.>>Take Care.>Lars Peter.>:-wave Thanks for the plug, Lars Peter...:-cool

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Daniel,Yes, I am well aware of how important the "feel" is in a flight simulator. That's why MSFS will never be an adequate replacement until Microsoft decide to include physics based flight modelling. I am simply dreaming of the day when I can look forward to flying in a next generation flight simulator that includes highly realistic scenery of THE ENTIRE British Isles.Perhaps I should take a break from FU3, but I would like to get that ILS approach organised for Hamilton Air Force Base first ;-)Chris Low.

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Hi Chris,Perhaps what you need to do is to try an entirely different kind of flying altogether.Stick the BeechJet in the hangar and go soaring in either of the two fantastic gliders available in the sim. The gliding is far better up in Washington State than in California, especially if you set the wind to 30+ Kts. Much as I enjoy flying the jets it can end up a bit like bus driving after a while, FU3 really comes into it's own when you're stuck 2000ft above a mountain riding on the ridge lift. It is an aspect of the sim that is unparalleled in any other PC product I've played with.As for being too scared to take a 30 min trial lesson, have you heard about aversion therapy? :-) I have to admit that I can be a nervous flier in the back of an Airbus, especially around landing time, probably because I've spent too many hours in sims and have some knowledge of how aircraft break. Really though in the three trial flights I've taken (Piper Warrior, Cessna 152, Unknown Glider) there was only one time I ever actually felt scared. That was when I took control of the glider for the first time (having come straight out of a 737 sim) and rolled it onto it's wing by being too heavy handed with the controls. Funnily enough, gliders have a much lower roll inertia than a 737 :-)Don't write off flying simply because you're scared, it's an experience you'll remember for many years and is well worth the initial butterflies.Cheers,Richard.

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Chris,You are dreaming of a new Flightsim still not on the market.With FU3 I am building my dream of a flightsim right now and when you are building what you want your seldom bored about it. ;-)UKS is a open ended region - we can continue up to Orkney Island.it's just a matter of diskspace and may be RAM and power also.The next Version of GeotilesViewer ( 3.2) can generate 257x257 elevation maps directly from the NASA SRTM Radar data so UKS elevation will have the full 64m grid elevation quality as actually just available for the Bembridge area.My first dream was to have Switzerland for FU3 in a good quality and this is on the way also... bored ? - no time for thathttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/91433.jpgHere a view of Switzerland Dent du Midi FU3 and real view at the bottom.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/91434.jpgChris, you will feel better when making airports for UKS ;-) :-wave agtim

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