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Goran,Appreciate your concern and I believe that many will have looked at helping those that have lost out. As I said above, I hope that somehow we will eventually be able to help. But:1. JF is still licensed and selling all PSS products. I doubt they would be impressed if someone else appeared to be distributing them.2. Any project like yours would need access to the PSS sales database.3. Also please bear in mind any wider impact on the add-on community as a whole.At present, we have no idea what happened to PSS as an entity last July nor do we know the position of their individual developers other than Ben Jones. So at this stage I believe that we can only be patient and try and help users of PSS products as much as we can.John Rooum

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I've been waiting for a post like this to pop up. With PSS seemingly disappearing completely, leaving people who own their products with no way to download them again, it was only a matter of time.1) Just Flight are selling PSS products, but they are only a vendor. Surely it wouldn't be their responsibility if someone was breaching PSS copyright. Yes, they may not be happy, but other than informing PSS (if that's even possible, and judging by their statement regarding the 757 and FSX, I would say not), I don't see what else they can actually do.2) Sounds like he's already downloaded all the files off the server while it was still up. In which case, it's a simple copy and paste into the FS folder.3) I see what your saying. But there's also the other side of the argument, where people have paid for a product that they can no longer download. There's a fine line between piracy and helping customers of a failed company who have been left stranded by them, and as long as proof of purchase type checks are made (if they can be), then I think we fall in the later part.It'll be interesting to see if PSS suddenly pop up again if users do start doing this.

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I would love to have my files back. I have everything they've made except the Vulcan. I think I might have my confirmation e-mails of my purchases if you'd be so kind to at least send me the 777, 757, dash 8, and airbus pro. I'll even pay you for the disc and the shipping.

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What I find especially frustrating, is "JustFlight" had to of purchased the rights to sale PSS aircraft, and they don't have to worry about LOSING these files. And now they can sale as many PSS aircraft as they want and those who buy them don't have to worry about LOSING their purchases. THIS IS MORALLY WRONG!Jorge

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So I should just send you what exactly to get the 757 backed up?I have the confirmation e-mail and the installers but no backup file (it didnt work for me for some reason) and I am about to do a major upgrade to my computer

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I vote that IF pss doesn't show up JustFlight could charge each of us $5 to get their support and download security if pss would turn over the order information to them. Just a thought of what would be best for the customers while still being a reasonable business deal.

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Everybody send me what you have to prove what you have bought. Then we'll take it from there. Use the email I have provided in the above post I made. Be warned, if i get any emails with fake proof of purchases, I will cease ALL help in this matter. I want to go through this the right way and I will not be a party to anything illegal. Setup files will be ideal because one cannot get a setup file without purchasing the product.Goran

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Goran:be very careful with what you are doing. at this time two things are known -* justflight has distribution rights* PSS holds copyrightyour efforts, though seemingly 'moral' can be a violation of JF's and PSS's rights.the law isn't a moral thing, it is about who has the right to do something (and money).you can easily find yourself in legal trouble where YOU owe persons LOTS of money and/or find yourself in prison.--

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Don't worry scoobNothing has been shared or distributed. I just saw the other post where someone found the files on a torrent site. I will state right now that I DID NOT post these files anywhere on the internet. They are still safely on my hard drive.However, what would be the problem if someone sends me their executable files and I send them the DVD for the respective product. The exe files are proof that the person who sent them has actually purchased them. No one can get exe files without a purchase. I have already gotten several emails with executables attached to them and people asking me to help them as JF and PSS have not been as forthcoming.Goran

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I have been one of their customers for some years. Even back in 2002 I had worries about their download system e.g. "What happens when PSS disappears, without warning?". I backed everything up, and my worries turned out to be fully justified!

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>what would be the problem if someone >sends me their executable files and >I send them the DVD for the >respective product.goran:the issue is you don't have the right to distribute the product. those rights are owned by PSS and justflight (that we know of).--

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>Everybody send me what you have to prove what you have>bought. Then we'll take it from there. Use the email I have>provided in the above post I made. Be warned, if i get any>emails with fake proof of purchases, I will cease ALL help in>this matter. I want to go through this the right way and I>will not be a party to anything illegal. Setup files will be>ideal because one cannot get a setup file without purchasing>the product.>Goran>I would also require that they send their full contact information which could be confirmed with the email. That should discourage someone trying to take advantage.This is something that PSS should be doing on their own. They have a database of everyone that purchased the product. Mr. Waterfield is not doing it because he is being irresponsible.Goran is not "distributing" the product. He is providing the copy for those who have already purchased it and can prove it.

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Goran,I applaud your enthusiasm {and I have seen your question on the PMDG forum: very brave} but I would continue to urge caution. You must first establish how you are going to confirm someone is a bona fide customer of PSS; the executable proves very little. Also see Scoob's comments: he's been around a while.I am hoping that eventually we might ensure that all genuine customers could recover their files but I believe that this would need access to the PSS sales database. We might even progress even further with the PSS products. I can say no more at present except that I do not want to see the problem confused more than it is now.RegardsJohn

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I really don't understand WHY PSS is letting it go to this point. All we want is the ability to download and save OUR PURCHASES. Whats so hard about that?Jorge

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There is really no reason at all! They could do a mass email to the customers on the database and give them a month or so to download the product. It wouldn't be hard to get an FTP site for a short time and link it to the email until everyone has downloaded the product.It is just a lack of concern and an irresponsible attitude toward the people who patronized there business while they were operating.

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I think that PSS is planning on coming back. Now the evidence against this is that they did not warn the customers and tell them they would be down for a while, I think that they did not want to tell the customers what the issue is, Like what if it was a copyright issue for one of the modules of it could be a number of things where they were not allowed to disclose the reason so they didn't tell the customers because then we would want a reason. I really believe they will be back and if not then we go after them. I think that this is the situation, I don't think they ran i think they are solving legal issues and will be back as soon as they are allowed or fix the problem.

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This whole thing stinks. I knew PSS was in some kind of trouble months back. 1 of the PSS guys made a post about it, I think it was Graham. It would have been very easy to let us all know so we can get busy downloading. It's not my business or anyone elses what Graham is going through legally, financially, or whatever. My sympathies go out to him if it was something along those lines. But all of us were his livelihood for many months and some of us have paid his bills for years! I made a post about this on the Just flight forums so we'll see how far it goes.Bottom line is, if I'm going to pay top dollar for a product (and it really was top dollar, nothing cheap about PSS products lately) I expect top quality customer service to go with it. Just flight co-owns the copyright licenses? Just flight has some of OUR money? Then I suggest Just Flight get busy helping out those who bought PSS products!GPS. I'm just G when I'm really mad!

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>Just flight co-owns the copyright licenses? Just>flight has some of OUR money? Then I suggest Just Flight get>busy helping out those who bought PSS products!All the copyright is held by PSS, the product is licensed to JustFlight for distribution only.

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I find people to be very understanding if you give them some kind of explanation of what is going on. Graham Waterfield owes to the customers who he collected money from to give the assurance that he is working to get back online or to make other support arraignments by posting updates regularly on a forum like this or mass emails direct from the PSS database.If PSS and Graham Waterfield keep the money from customers who have paid for a product and cannot benefit from the product they purchased, then he either owes them the money or the software, one of the two.If I was buying stock in his company and it went broke, then I could understand losing the money. Thousands of flight simmers have purchased the product, not stock, from PSS and Mr. Waterfield is no less than repossessing the product after he collects the money. This is just stealing, no less than the piracy he took such great care to protect himself from.He has already violated the trust with his customers by not keeping them informed. The least that he can do is to save his damaged reputation by supporting his customers and not burning his bridges for any future plans he might have in flight sim softwareGraham Waterfield I know that you read these forums so this is what I have to say to you... No matter what shape your company is in now, PSS has accomplished making a good sim and building a good reputation, up until this point. With everything else in your company gone, your reputation is still your asset. You can decide now if you want to trash what remains of those years of hard work, or if you want to hold onto it for the future. This is your decision. This is your crossroads. You have more to lose than any one of your customers. If you make a decision to steal your customer's money and in doing so, destroy your own reputation, you will not be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. A massive world of flight simmers will spit your name out with disgust and disdain.You can decide today to do the right thing, and that is what you will be remembered for when your name comes up again.

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I couldn't care less about PSS as a company, I just want my 777 and concorde back.As far as I'm concerned, I have every right to obtain these where ever they may come from.And I'll also 'deliver' on proof of purchase..(what ever that may entail) Stuff Just Flight, I bought my licence with PSS not with them. Let's not forget that PSS let Just flight use all the paints in their package..(about

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>>>Graham Waterfield I know that you read these forums >>How do you know this? As far as I am aware he does not read>the forums at present.>>Rob Elliott, EGPE Inverness>PSS Airbus Support and>Airbus Fleet Training Captain, British Airways Virtual >airbus@speedbirdonline.co.uk>http://www.speedbirdonline.co.uk/airbus.html>http://www.bavirtual.co.ukLogic tells me that after operating a company for as many years as he has either him or his contacts would be at least curious what his customers are thinking.However he gets this message that the customers that he has tried for the last few years to attract and please, are disgusted with the present conduct of PSS, is just fine.

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I only have the Emirates livery for the 777-200 and the Qantas livery for the -300ER.Moderator: rest of post deleted. If you want to discuss distribution of the products you need to contact Justflight. Please do not discuss potentially illegal distributions here on the.

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