I was flying in Hawaii...so I assume the MSA shoould not have been too high...but I will pay attention to it when I load the next flight.

i just flew from Lihue to Honolulu. it listed the departure msa around 4700 and the destination at 2500. Don't know why the difference since they are both on an island..basically at sea level. All vectors were ok today. Turned me in around 23 miles out. I had localizer reception.

the msa reflects the highest point within 20 miles of the airport. i imagine there were some mountains or volcanoes in the vicinity.jd

JD...You are correct. Mountains and volcanoes. As per Tanker's post above, he too was vectored outside the reception of the localizer. I'm not bashing your product by any means...I love using RC. But it seems there should be a way to shorten the outbound leg (without having to ask for a short final) or to have RC give us a vector inbound onto the localizer course until the localizer becomes active, instead of us having to tune additional equipement etc.

i could turn you sooner, but you would be above the glideslope. and that's bad.you can reduce the msa, and your turn to downwind will occur sooner. how far off was the rc msa to what the approach plate says the msa is?jd

Ok...what you are saying about the msa makes sense...but turn me downwind sooner?? It's not the being turned downwind that is the problem. It's the excessive length of the downwind. I understand that you must remain above the MSA for the area...which by the way is 5200 in the northwest quadrant of the approach plate of 8L in Honolulu. The plate says to remain 3600 within 10 miles. This will keep you below the glideslope. So why be routed 20 plus miles out when I need to be above 4700 msa(info in RC)and below the glidescope? In Tanker's post above, why did he need to be routed so far out? the msa could not have been that high there....no moutains or volcanoes. I guess the real aggrivating point is that it seems to always be at the fringes of the localizer reception. Everything seems to be going right, and then just before being turned to intercept, you loose the localizer. Kind of frustrating after a long flight...having to go fishing for the localizer when one would expect Approach to vector you in with plenty of time to get the signal.

i meant to turn you basejd

ok...I will pay attention to the msa's and adjust if neccessary. If my outbound starts to go over 15 miles and I'm below the glideslope, I guess I will request a short final.

>it happens when you aren't going to get the full approach>(downwind, base and final)jd,Isn't it a bit strange to consider "full ILS" approach to consist of downwind and base leg?. Most ILS approaches flown by big guys come off some STAR in which case they are not very far off the final heading when they are say 20 miles out.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

Ok, I've been talking to some current real world pilots (mostly military) and asked what the procedure is if they were cleared to intercept the ILS but were beyond the ILS range. None of the pilots I spoke to had ever had it happen unless there was something wrong with their equipment or the ILS was completely out. In those cases, they would immediately notify approach and request a different approach.It appears that RC4 uses MSA, but real world controllers clear aircraft to descend based on their actual location relative to obstructions?Personally, I would rather be vectored to a point within range of the ILS, even if it meant I was above the glide slope (within reason) - turn off the autopilot and fly the approach!Dale

Any way this can be tweaked to allow for a closer final? It may work okay for most downwinds, but if your approach is straight in, then I'd think that it could be reworked to compensate for this issue.