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Virgin_A340

Just can't get STARs to work,Please Help!

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Hi.I have been desperatly trying to get STARs to work in RCv4 but so far have failed to fly a single one! :( Today I tried a short hop from EGPH to my home airport EGNX. Routefinder came up with this filght plane which I put into FSBuild and then into RCv4: EGPH SID DCS UN57 POL STAR EGNX.The SID worked fine. I have looked at other posts on this forum and they say that you don't need to enter the STAR in FSBuild just the start point, in this case POL then direct to EGNX. I did this. Checked the weather for EGNX and set my FMC up for a ROKUP 1F arrival for RWY 09. I entered all the alt constraints correctly and noted the TOD point. When I was 57nm from calculated TOD ATC told me to descend to LF280. Shortly after I got a call to descend to FL210. Then I got FL120. None of these are in anything like the alt constraints in the STAR and I ended up way off the vertical profile with no hope of getting in back! I then got told I'd gone off my flied route!It seemes like RCv4 has no idea which STAR I'm flying and the altitude constraints. Is this how it should be? Is there no way to tell ATC you want to fly the full STAR before you get to the TOD because by the time I was handed to approach I was completely off the STAR route and altitudes.Please can someone help me as I feel that I am missing out on part of this excellent program,in fact I got it because the default MSFS ATC doesn't let you fly STARs.I hope I'm not missing something really silly but I am fairly new to this program so I may well be. :-shy Thanks for any help with this problem.Andy S

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Andy,>>It seemes like RCv4 has no idea which STAR I'm flying and the altitude constraints:)

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Welcome Andy,In addition to what Doug said, there was a topic on this forum about STARS and how they can be flown in RC. The thread is called "Stars", and first posted on 1 June 06. The link is:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...20076&mode=fullHopfully you'll find that thread interesting and informative. If you're still having problems, let us know. There is a quite a steep learning curve with RC, but over time everything will fall in place and you'll realise you're a better pilot for it :()Subs

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Hi. Thanks for the replies guys.It seems maybe I am trying to do something the RCv4 is not capable of. (Don't take that as criticism by the way, this is one awsome program :-hah ). The reason I wanted to fly what you say are Profile Descents is that I have been doing the Lessons from PMDG and it tells how to use VNAV for descents and this seems a better/more fuel efficient way of descending than using V/S LHCH modes. To use VNAV you have to have alt and speed restricions in the FMC flight plane so it will not work with RCv4, is this correct? If so what is the dest way to descned in say a 744 or 777? What vertical speeds shoud be used to comply with ATC instructions?Cheers. Andy S

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>>What vertical speeds shoud be used to comply with ATC instructions?<<3-PD was installed (available from cruise, and only if you have the comms), so YOU can calculate rates of descent. Respect to what you're trying to do, with VNAV engaged and assuming your request has been approved by RC, dial the newly assigned altitude and sit back. Your aircraft will begin it's descent per the FMC while at the same time complying with ATC instructions.>>To use VNAV you have to have alt and speed restricions in the FMC flight plane so it will not work with RCv4, is this correct?:).Keep in mind (for when you get the hang of this), Profile Descents and your FMC will call for you to fly to specific checkpoints, each with altitude restrictions once inside Apch airspace. As I said eariler, by default RC Apch controller won't allow for this but there are ways to make this work too. Check with the guys (here on the forum) when you get that far.Finally, please don't go on the global assumption that FMC instructions and their timing, rules the skies!; that that's the way it's done rw. Overall rw = ATC drives, not FMCs. There are just too many airplanes in the air. This is a widely known fact. Only once in 26yr have I been asked by a pilot, to allow his FMC to drive him all the way to threshold. "Unable". In the majority of scenarios, it's just not a pragmatic procdure though I have heard the States plan to try it again.Ain't it fun :D

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If you wish to fly a STAR be sure your flight planner includes the waypoints to destination . RC will follow that to about 40 nm out. When approach calls select the IAP procedure and let the FMC be your guide. Your STAR should have altitude contstraints in the FMC or you can enter them manually. FSBuild will export altitude constraints as well to the FMC if you choose to let FSBuild route the STAR. The PMDG STAR may also contain those.If you elect IAP be aware that those STARS final waypoints that state expect vectors to the runway will not get you those from RC once IAP is selected. Most STARS will take you to a path that includes your chosen IAF for the final approach and in these cases will work.I always fly RC NOTAMS on arrival that let me deviate on altitudes in the last 40 nm or so. You can also use the request other altitudes in the RC menu during enroute as well as the PD menu selection to request pilot's discretion.You should be aware of the following procedures:On the FMC know how to skip waypoints on the LEGS page and close DISCOs.On the RC menu know how to skip waypoints to skip the "credit" required so if on vectors you do not get turned around.

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Hi.I have just reread the manual again in more depth and I may be starting to see what you have to do.The manual says "If you are flying a jet, expect to be instructed to cross 40 miles from the destination airport at either 11,000 or 12,000 (altitudes) with a possible speed restriction @250 kts." Does that mean you should add a waypoint to the FMC that is 40nm from destination and then enter 11,000 or 12,000 as an alt restriction when it is give by ATC, so that you can use VNAV to control descent rate?When you get "descend at pilot

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>The manual says "If you are flying a jet, expect to be>instructed to cross 40 miles from the destination airport at>either 11,000 or 12,000 (altitudes) with a possible speed>restriction @250 kts." Does that mean you should add a>waypoint to the FMC that is 40nm from destination and then>enter 11,000 or 12,000 as an alt restriction when it is give>by ATC, so that you can use VNAV to control descent rate?Yes, doing so would work. I always program a waypoint that is about 45 miles from destination which allows me to plan to get down and time to then slow down.>When you get "descend at pilot

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Hi.To all of you who have replied, thanks very much. I will stop bugging you now and go try a few flights with my knewfound knowledge. ;-) I may have some more questions after that though! This is how FS should be, great programs with great support! Thanks.Andy S

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Couple of points to consider, at least on the Boeing FMC:The legs page will constantly update showing your predicted altitude arriving at each waypoint if altitude consraints are not entered.If you need to get down quickly the MCP altitude dialed in coupled with a FLCH command will give you an idle thrust descent. You can increase descent rate by allowing idle airspeed to increase (V/S control) or adding drag with the speedbrake if V/S causes AIS to get too high for the aircraft envelope in the current air conditions (smooth vs. turbulent) conditions as well as maintaining any speed restrictions.If you are in VNAV and have the DES page up, there is a DESCEND NOW command to start your descent ahead of the calculated TOD. Before doing this have your desired altitude in the window. You will not descend below this altitude or the constraint, whichever comes first. This applies to descending in VNAV in general. If VNAV requests a descent and you have not lowered the MCP altitude below your current altitude you'll get a scratchpad warning MCP ALTITUDE. If the altitude in the MCP window can not be reached in the designated distance it may blink and you may get a DRAG REQUIRED message.On the ND look at your wind indicator. See if there is a head or tail wind to indicate an additional adjustment to V/S to make the restriction or you can reduce it a bit if the headwind is significant.You can divide your GS by 60 to get miles per minute. A GS for example of 450 is about 7.5 miles per minute. To get there in 30 miles will take about four minutes. You know the altitude difference in feet so divide that divide that difference by four to get V/S minimum in feet per minute. Or take the easy way and get down pronto if fuel consumption when you level off is not an issue.As an addendum to his 700 Series Simulator Manual Captain Mike Ray has on his site, www.utem.org, a download regarding constant descent procedures. Some of the formulas and procedures he gives can also be applied to getting down from PPOS in a certain distance calculating the rate of descent for an acceptable airspeed.

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Just to buy into this stars issue one more time as they work in Australia. At Sydney international all the stars as published on the Air Services Australia web site begin inside 40 miles, most at 30 or 32 miles. All include "expect vectors" for final runway fix but this varies from inside 10 miles to inside 30 miles depending on the star. However this not the way RC is programmed to do things. You can fly your star by requesting an IAP approach but you wont get vectors to the final rwy fix as in real life. As someone else has said re this stars issue on the main MSFS forum, while RC is very good a bit of imagination is needed now and then particularly with non US local procedures.Bruceb

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