Sign in to follow this  
downscc

Terminal Procedures Recommendation

Recommended Posts

Maybe it's too soon for me to be proposing features for a product I've only used for a couple of days, but this is based on a solid IFR background as well as some familiarity with ATC procedures.I recommend that the controller preset's include a field for entering a valid fix name for departures and arrivals. The fix would be valid if it is included in the flightplan. One, two or no entries are allowed. Departures: If a fix is not provided in the proposed departure fix field in the controller's presets, then the logic remains the same. If a fix is provided, then the logic depends on if it is the first fix of the flight plan. If the named fix is the first fix in the flight plan, then vectors are provided to that fix after departure regardless of distance. The second case (named fix is not first fix) will support departures such as (KRNO) RENO3 or (KSNA) LOUPE1, where the procedure requires that the pilot fly to a fix then received vectors to join a transition. If the fix is not the first fix in the flight plan then RC will clear the pilot to fly the departure as published until the aircraft reaches the named fix, whereupon RC provides vectors to the next fix in the flight plan.Arrivals: If a fix is not provided in the proposed arrival fix field in the controllers's presets, then the logic remains the same. NOTAM and IAP features are unchanged. However, if a fix is provided then RC will clear the pilot for the arrival as published (including altitude & speed constraints, which are the pilot's responsiblity) until the aircraft arrives at the named fix, whereupon RC provides vectors to the requested approach. This logic will provide better fidelity for a major majority of the arrival routes published where vectors are provided from the approach gate. It will also work for the growing number of RNAV arrivals where the final fix provided by the procedure is an IAF for the approach.The glitches that I anticipate is the 7110.65 terminology for the arrival clearance should include the name of the arrival procedure and I don't know the best way to implement this feature. The FS9 .pln is just a series of fixes without a reference to arrivals or departures (very unreal), but if we're trying to achieve fidelity then the ATC clearances for arrivals and departures should always explicitly name the procedure, so I'm going to defer discussion of this feature for a different thread. Also, where it is the pilot's resposibility to fly a procedures as published ATC is still there to monitor and challange deviations, which is beyond the capability of the application and due in large part to the simplistic MSFS treatment of the national airspace system.To recap: Add two text box fields to the controller's presets for fix names. One for departure and one for arrival. Vectors are provided to or from these named fixes depending on their context. I think it is a simple change but it should significantly improve the fidelity of you already great product.Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

email this too me. we'll look at it, and see if it is already covered in our v5 list.in the meantime, i might suggest flying the tutorials, so you see what/how we do thingsthanks for the feedbackjd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding to this rather than start a new thread.Is it possible to get lower than the 10000,11000,12000 Altitude at 40nm out?For some approaches to a sea level field it seems a bit high.Descent rates for jets at 250k make it very tight.It's OK for say LAX on a SADDE6 as you get a long downwind but into EGCC on a DAYNE from the south for example, it's a struggle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those altitudes at that distance is very common. Basically, center is putting you just low enough to be in approach airspace. A 3 deg descent angle will get you down to initial approach altitudes quite easily. Try slowing her down a little, you should be descending about 240 ft/nm, which at 240 kts is a descent rate of 1440 fpm (I've done rounding off) but at 210 kts is only 840 fpm. This is pretty close to the rate you're going to descent on the final approach segment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EGCC altitudes at the FAFs are 3,000 at 9 DME ILS. The DAYNE arrival recommends the minimum of 6,000 at DAYNE or slightly above. DAYNE is 11 DME from MCT at the airport center. The crossing restriction 25 nm before TNT is FL200. TNT to DAYNE distance is 17 DME so you should be able to get down to 6000 at DAYNE. Since DAYNE appears to be on an extended perpendicular to mid runway, you should be able to descend 3,000 or a little more via the pattern.Is RC keeping you too high at DAYNE? What is your commanded altitude at TNT?The way around this keeping vectors to final is to (if available on the menu) request lower at TNT and then again if available on the way to DAYNE.The airport MSA quad is at 3,500. In the controller page for destination, what is the stated MSA. If it is too high lower it there.Lastly, you can apply NOTAMS to destination to allow you to deviate from ATC during approach. ATC then becomes an advisory nature without cursing at you for deviating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I am a noob compared to Dan on these things, I think his suggestion is excellent. I just had a lovely tour of Lake Mead (not using IAP) courtesy of the RC4 ATC on my flight from KONT to KLAS. Brian S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Adding to this rather than start a new thread.>>Is it possible to get lower than the 10000,11000,12000>Altitude at 40nm out?For some approaches to a sea level field>it seems a bit high.Descent rates for jets at 250k make it>very tight.Try slowing down early. There is no need to be at 250 KIAS once down to 11000 and below setting up for an approach.-michael

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies.In the real world a/c are usually at 6000 or FL 60 at DAYNE.And yes I already do all those things.However,with RC4,it is possible that you cannot get access to the controller or the dialog box to set up your request for IAP because someone else is talking.It does that on mine anyway.So you can find on occasions yourself at 30 miles from the airport still at 12000.Obviously you cannot talk when someone else is, but you cannot start the IAP process either because the screen is inoperative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if there is that much talking going on, you might want to reduce the amount of ai a little bit.and i've never tried this, but i think you should be able to press the key you want, even when someone is talking. you will then talk when they are done talkingjd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can press the keys but nothing moves until Control has finished with any other a/c he is dealing with.Obviously it is a good idea not to be able to blot out another station(even though it sometimes happens in RL) but it is impossible to start setting up the dialog for the approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this