EagleSkinner

Have you tried the ******* Altuvai Bojote tweaks? That guy lives up to his name - I got an instant 50% increase in FPS. My current PC (until tomorrow) is an AMD FX62 / nVidia 8800 GTS combo - six years on the CPU and 4+ on the GPU. I can fly GA with no stutters at 25 FPS all day long - except when I fly near cities. That is my limitation and being a GA low and slow fan, I don't miss that in the slightest. Pac NW, fully FTX'd - no probs. Even my scenery refresh is better than a certain alternative flight program. Oh yes - and I am running FSX with sliders predominantly to the right.I will not deny that I have had problems with FSX in the past. One of the biggest ones has been overheating the CPU - 100° centigrade and above were commonplace. That of course made FSX collapse to blackscreen quite often because the CPU shuts down. Best fix - after market cooler, fresh heatsink paste.Remember - glitches are not necessarily the fault of the software. If your hardware can't handle it, you will think the SW is glitchy.Another serious handicap with FSX is the load time - that does bug me. So I go make a fresh cup of tea.As far as 3PD stuff for Flight (@ahuimanu) - if MS allow 3PD via MS shop, then the 3PD WILL have the ability to modify content. And MS have as much as confirmed that they are using licensed 3PD to create DLC for Flight!. TBH, I think and agree that Flight! will not succeed without 3PD. The fact that it will only be licensed content may put noses out of joint, but do not forget - No one, but absolutely no one has actually lost from MS developing Flight. FSX is still there. ORBX, FTX , Avsim and all the others are still there. I am still producing paints (OK, slowly now, but still...)You won't have to like Flight! but you should not slam MS for trying a different tack. Who knows - we may make many new friends from the Flight community. "We" know their spreadsheet guys got it wrong ;) but never forget the two main MS rules:1. Microsoft is always right!2. When the situation proves otherwise, rule 1 applies...Having said that - I do confess that I am disappointed in MS as well - I really would have liked a sequel to FSX. But it is their trainset. It may turn out that they made a wrong decision - it may not. Let's at least wait for the fun and games...

I am afraid it is not that simple - we do not have the official release of Flight! yet... and as to new VC lighting models and better FPS... VC lighting? I guess you mean dimmable lighting - not new. Several FSX aircraft have dimmers that work.Shading and lighting? Maybe there are improvements in Flight - after all, we are up to DX11 now and FSX only covers DX9 with a DX10 preview mode.Better FPS - at what cost? FSX suffer FPS issues because MS made a mistake and anticipate faster single core processors when Intel went multicore. (I wonder if that was part of the reason for dropping the ACES team - because they missed CPU development progress?) A well tuned FSX really doesn't have major issues with FPS on anything but older PCs now. And Flight! may gain FPS by sacrificing some of the less necessary functions in the flight engine.Simulation? Not even MS claim Flight! to be a true simulation. But it will appeal to those "simmers" who just want to get in and go...But in the final analysis, we REALLY need to wait and see how Flight pans out. Not even you, Jahman, know how Flight is going to look on release day, let alone once DLC starts to flow. We can discuss the beta one day, but until then, we cannot even comment either way. I would dare to speculate that Flight! has a lot of surprises in store - you only have to look at what leaks have gotten out. I know I recently fired up my FSX Hawaii setup and am still "stunned" by what FSX on my old PC can deliver. Even if I did pay more than Flight will cost me.What we do know is that FSX really has improved thanks to 3PDs and public pressure on MS to give us those SPs. And while there are people like Sandmann, Patch, FTX, OrbX, OzX, REX, FEX and all those Avsim contributors.Have you tried ridge soaring in FSX with the appropriate addins? Believe me - dancing with the lift for hours on end while flying around very high definition Alps meshes and textures is (still?) incredibly breathtaking in FSX.I respectfully suggest that those who are dissatisfied with FSX go and learn all there is to be learned about good tuning and to stop saying FSX is dead or rubbish or non-functional. I also respectfully suggest that everyone who has anything to comment about Flight! without having tried it yet be patient and wait and see what the release version brings. Don't pooh pooh Flight! too soon. True - it will not be everything for everyone, but at least the free demo version will give everyone a REAL IDEA about Flight! potential.

When I look at what folk like FTX are up to, I don't think the market for FSX is dying too much (MVGibbage), nor has the market been exhausted - although FTX sceneries do not necessarily appeal to the big jet fliers. There are still many aircraft that can be "done" and of those that have been, there are enough that need improvement. Even Aerosoft are seriously thinking about a Beaver remake. OK - the biggest part of the FS* market is the passenger jet sector and that part is indeed flooded with enough "heavies", after all, you only have to look at the Avsim library downloads for heavies and paints for heavies. Perhaps this sector is running out of subject matter, but small planes?Alain asks in his OP why so many 3PDs are up in arms about Flight. I would dare venture an answer here that the Flight "embargo" only really affects those 3PDs who "sell" via their own shops - and the fact that MS want a "cut" of their sales (30% was mentioned). So PMDG and FTX and co. would lose some serious profits.On the other hand - no other "private" or "hobbyist" 3PD really will lose - he already pays a similar "publisher's cut" to simMarket, Aerosoft and the likes. Oh... would that include the Avsim store perhaps? It is these major operators in the flightsim addon market that stand to lose. No I can't really say that, it's simply a market that has been closed out to them. They still have their existing markets and it is up to them to keep an active consumer interest in the flight simulation scene.Also - you must remember that MS currently have their own limitations on the market - their existing policies prohibit them from publishing aircraft liveries out of the real world. Which is why you have so far never seen Lufthansa, United, Qantas, Afriqiyah and all those other airlines represented in any MS content. Those few real world paints in the MS "library" have been negotiated between MS and the © holders - for MS to produce the kind of variety 3PDs can produce would mean that MS would have to employ a whole new department to negotiate duplication rights. So no matter how good Flight! is now, you can possibly scratch any idea of seeing name-brand commercial airliners. That leaves the FS* market still virtually untouched.Have I left any 3PDs out? Oh yes - the freeware 3PDs. These people actually stand a chance of winning with the new MS Flight market. If it has been good freeware, it will make perfectly good MS "pointsware" and thus open up an alternative for them to actually earn something.Much as the established sim community may or may not like Flight! or MS' attitude towards the sim community (whether real or imagined) there is one aspect of Flight! that should not be forgotten: if it brings folk to enjoy this flying hobby of ours, then these newcomers will eventually desire more and more functionality or eye-candy and if Flight! cannot meet this demand, it will be up to us to nurture these newcomers' interest and to help them enjoy and learn. Many posters in these fora are more likely to frighten these potential friends away.(You know - I never did understand why most FS users like to fly passenger jets around the world. If you want to be a bus driver, there is a perfectly good bus driver sim out on the market...)(Yes - I do belong to the "two props is one too many" and the "Jets whine" faction)P.S. I see there has been a flurry of replies since I started to compose this. Apologies if I missed some themes.

Hey... you forget one thing folks - the Icon A5 is in the LSA class. Of course it will handle totally differently to a normal GA. Also not to be forgotten - it has auto mixture and if the makers say it is close to how the real thing flies, then who are we to say otherwise?Having said that, I have been on betas with RW pilots who have needed to be asked the right questions before they recognise that a sim model is in fact flying wrong. All too often hobby pilots are just that - "drivers airframe" and do not know as much about the physics of flying machines as do test engineers, test pilots, maintenance engineers and aeronautics engineers.And how many people still follow Bernoullian flight physics? Bernoulli sucks! It's Newton that makes aeroplanes fly these days... ;) Oh there's nothing wrong with Bernoullian physics, but it doesn't tell the whole truth about how aircraft fly.[edit]Reading material: Scott Eberhardt and David Anderson: How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift

Sadly the OP is right. Avsim members HAVE gone out of their way to ridicule Flight, Flight's developers and Flight's testers. Even more sadly, I am inclined to agree that Flight may well be a step in the wrong direction...BUT...Flight is just another facet of this fascinating hobby of ours. Some users will prefer the simplistic aspects of the game and other new users will want more, erm... "realism". Fine. Have "we" (the die hard flight simmers) actually lost anything? Not in the slightest! Does Flight prevent us enjoying our hobby? Not in the slightest! Will Flight players be any kind of lesser being for liking it? Not in the slightest!So it would be nice if established Avsim members remember that they are not some kind of Übermensch and that they are no better than the people who just want to play around.What do I know about this? I'll tell you in March. Maybe.

"handwriting" is even worse than typing because that requires wrist movement. I do have an A4 Wacom tablet, but as you might guess - it is not getting much use.I am thinking about a visual tablet now. One that has a "touch/stylus sensitive" screen - but at around 1000 Euros, I fear that is too much for stuff I do for free. I am not "that important" to the world that I need to immortalise myself with my amateur artwork ;)

Worse than CTS - I slipped on ice two winters ago and crushed all the cartilege between the bones of the right wrist. I have literally bone on bone contact in the wrist now. Docs say that the only solution is to fuse the joints - which is no solution at all for me, so although I can still type reasonably well, my fine mousework suffers. But that would be worse with fusion so I restrict myself to painting only for worthwhile causes...But don't read anything into that "worthwhile" - it could be a case of "Wow! I like that!" or (as in the current case) CareFlite in TX asking me to do their A109... which I am - despite some godawfully tricky mapping issues ;)

Now there's a thought... My new PC will come with a Zotac nVidia 580 graphics card - and that is bundled with Assassin's Creed... am I in any danger of being distracted from more flight time? I did do one round of Skyrim as an assassin, but I rather preferred the role of "Wandering Hero, dragonslayer and all round nice guy" - even if it did mean slaughtering a few "Imperials" alongside all that gutting of dragons to clean up the bones and scales to make super armour...All that is delaying my painting "work" for the flying simulation community - my order book (sic) is full and if I don't get those paints done, I'll miss out on more "Ego-food" despite the injured wrist that has kept me away for the best part of two years...

You seem to have opened a "Pandora's Box" there, Francois. So much emotion has been released by your OP that I am reminded more of classic literature (Great Expectations, War and Peace, The Importance of being Earnest) than I am of a hobby.Question to all: Have we lost anything?Nope. We still have our favourite game or sim. OK, so the MSFS series has been discontinued (for now?) - well, there is still Avsim for free addons and addins. There will still be FSAddon, Aerosoft, FTX, Orbx et al for commercial addons. These will continue to enrich our enjoyment of PC flying for as long as we care to support these sources, either monetarily or with whatever feeds the third party developer's ego. FSX stands every chance of actually surviving as is for a long time to come. Xplane may one day improve beyond...But when the dust settles, even flight simulation (please note the lower case usage) on a home PC will remain a game. I doubt there are really many commercial users who really use PC flight simulation for more than a procedures trainer or a (minor) training aid. You just cannot beat the real thing or perhaps a full six axis simulator. Yes, it is a very gripping "game" that really attracts a very serious following - me too. I am very serious about my usage - but I still fly under anything I can and in the real world, I'd have probably spent more time in front of 'pilot suitability review boards' than in the cockpit...I have been a beta tester for many flight simulation products over the years and yes, I have made many caustic and abrasive comments about the product I was testing and in the long run I like to think I have contributed too. I can't talk about any current beta tests I may be engaged in - at least not until any NDAs are lifted, but I do know that developers of flight simulation software and games do have an honest desire to attract customers. Oh yes - money is always in the backs of the developers' minds; the bigger organisations do not develop software for charity. Of course, there are the Father Bills and the Justin Times and even the Francois Dumases who have an honest desire to further the hobby despite the low returns. Kudos folks! We, the people, appreciate this too - and even more so the "Piglets" of our hobby world.And yet... sitting at a PC, flying around imaginary airspace remains mostly an entertainment pastime. "Flight!" is merely adding another facet to this hobby. If the spreadsheet kids have done their homework, we will welcome many more PC pilots to our genre and perhaps many of these will eventually desire more - do we want to scare these people away? Surely it will be better to say "Welcome to the fascinating world of PC flying" and when they are ready for a more in depth involvement, then we can be there to show them how. Because when all is said and done, "Flight!" may not keep many newcomers interested long enough, but hopefully it will fire that spark of desire in enough people to make MS think again and develop a new "simulator".My own motivation for this post: I am an avid "flight simmer" and I too, hope for more from "Flight!". But to give you an idea - I also like to play the occasional game. A little game came out last year, it was called Skyrim, anyone hear of it? In the first month I had passed the 200 hour mark and I am still intensely immersed after three months. (I will get over it though, that is for sure) Then there was a recent flight simulation demo that I was invited to partake in. It managed to become boring after about thirty hours, despite some pretty good graphics. Having dragons sneak up on you and crisp you, whilst grinning rather sneakily can be so amazingly immersive, that you just have to go round the next turn in the road to see what is coming next... and there is such a flourishing support from users who are posting videos on youtube showing their talents. Unfortunately, flying through hoops and doing some barnstorming just doesn't challenge a game player enough for any long-term immersion. I don't think that this latest flying game demonstration will ever match that kind of attraction. On the other hand WE all know just how much our "true" flight simulation hobby has kept us engrossed over the years - and not even a "Bethesda" game can provoke more dedication than our devotion to "OUR" simulation....and the beauty of it all:We still have it. No one has taken anything away by putting "Flight!" on the market.

Ouch... :(As far as MS kicking bad press off their fan page... The first commandment, remember?1. Thou shalt worship no DOS but the one DOS and Emmess shall be his name.

It's their "trainset" and it is, after all, supposed to be a "FAN" page... Some of those comments are definitely unworthy of the posters.

Aero Commander: http://www.flightsim...e.com/commander - if the site is still active (I just copied out of the PK[edit]Yep, it's good![unedit]

This one?I painted it for the FS9 Wings of Power P51 - it will work in the FSX A2A Mustang if you are willing to work it.Send me a PM and I'll send the BMPs

Ah... the spool chunker does not like the abbreviation w o p - wings of power. hence the two asterisks above.

I did that one years ago for the A2A ** MustangShould still be in the library - if not, I'll see if I can find it

The single most promising quote in that interview is: FRANCHISE... the implication is there that some form of TPD will happen. As a B tester I cannot comment on what I know (yet) but I will say I have given Flight a good thrashing and when MS release us from the NDA one day, you will hear more.

Apologies all round, especially to AVSIM staffers who will have to clean this up...

Well, as a Brit in America I once bummed a fag... errr...And the American preponderance to call a botty a fanny - erm... that does not sit well with the British vernacular. As for all those Beaver pilots, well, my dear old sainted aunt would blush. What about lush vegetation? In the US of A one might think of an alcoholic brain-dead, but we Brits tend to think in the direction of rain forests here...... and saying "I do" when you mean "I have"... too funny. As for the "high comma"...A Po’s TrophyBy Chris BrislandA possessive thing is a po’s tropheIt’s its confusing role that makes us loafOver whether or not its functions bothPossessive or omissive need be quothAnd why can’t we use it for plurals?It’s got itself high, like a comma on drugsAnd those who misuse it, like grammatical thugs,Will suffer diaeresys of the colonUntil it’s cold turkey they go onFor a period of ’strophic abstention.But other punctuations yet loom to confuseThe writer’s accent into heavenly muse.Did asterisk really live in old FranceAnd with obelus hyphenate Roman advanceOf circumflexion as modern birth control?Or did they hôpital down to the hospitalTo see cedilla, pre-appendectomy C, fallIll with a grave caçe of a cute akçentitisWhile doctors slash’d virgule’s perioditisTilde ampersand’s bleeding was stopped.Can you understand what I’m trying to say?Please try to keep punctuation at bayOr your brackets will blockAnd you’ll call “Comma doc!I need a dose of colonic punctuation.”

Please folks, forgive my apparent lack of understanding of forum rules, legal aspects and how to interpret an end user license agreement. I have only been an English native speaker for some 55 years or so of my 58.The very first paragraph of the license sets down the ruls of who may use this software and how and the very last clause of the sentence is: "....... and only for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment."In other words, they (Lokheed Martin) appear to be saying that users may not use this software at home for any form of recreational simulation of flight? We are being extended an invitation to buy a license for the simulation aspect, but we, the user, are not permitted to be entertained by the product.That does rather limit their user base AND it does seem to limit the rightness of any FSX supporter to use P3D - including all discussion fora, commercial, non-profit and freeware third party developers, student pilots who only want to fly for fun.After all - I would dare suggest that about the ONLY thing people here use any simulation software for is personal entertainment.

I have the "Avatar" game for Wii... there is a very good dragon riding simulator that you control with the balance board. Oh yes, there's a Segway for Wii too...A Harry Potter broom in FSX? Yeah, why not? I already have a flying vicar on a "solex" push bike with an engine in the front basket...

That was not the point. Besides - judging by the MS pricing policy, we'll be asked to spend a lot more in the long run.The point is that we can already have a better looking Hawaii than the pre release screenshots show. And then I can apply much of what I have paid for to every other part of the world. There is nothing much in the publicly available info material on Flight that cannot be matched by FSX and free- or payware. BTW - the Megascenery pack was a special offer purchase with LA and Vegas and was really cheap. The Terrain mesh from FSGenesis was part of my lifetime Galaxy membership package. The Hawaiian waterfalls are free. FEX, REX, ASE, XGraphics etc. are all "whole world packages" and give infinite variation. Does Flight offer infinitely variable real world weather?I do believe MS may well have improved such bottlenecks as load times and FPS, but at what cost? There are more visible repeats in texture tiles in the few publicly available images provided by MS and NDA breakers. And I see nothing that indicates that MS could even hope to equal A2A's Accusim aircraft or FTX's sceneries.

Hmmm - we were given the FSX engine for free too. And two planes. AND some great looking scenery (Princess Juliana and the island of St Maarten) The rest of the world came for 60 dollars ish and the prices eventually dropped as the DVDs became shelfware. You probably won't see prices dropping in a year or so with MS holding the reins.I recently loaded up FSX Hawaii with FSGenesis mesh, Megascenery Oahu, FSG Waterfalls. Then I also have Active Sky, REX, Xgraphics, FSX Trees and numerous freeware enhancements from the dedicated Avsim Library users.From the publicly available screenshots I can already see that the MS landclass polys are small and repetitive and often sharp edged (MS need a Holger Sandmann!). About the only thing I don't really see in FSX at the moment on Hawaii are terrain textures that give rocks texture on sloping mesh - and then only ORBX / FTX seem to have that technique off pat. My take is that there is nothing much in Flight, that we don't already have in FSX. Yes - there are (vast?) performance improvements on the MS side over FSX. But FSX + TPD is still the yardstick. Yes, MSF improves shadows. Yes, MSF have improved their texturing skills a bit - but there's nothing new that freeware painters haven't been doing better for the past six years and more.And now MS come out of the closet and reveal their pricing policy. Just imagine one good hack and all the paid for MS points being "wiped"... The last thing I would personally trust is paying up front for a couple of thousand MS cowrie shells - while MS make a few gazillion dollars in interest alone. There will always be those few left over "points" that no one will ever use. Imagine those millions of unused points and then realise how micropayments is a license for the unscrupulous to print money. Oh yes, MS have worked closely with ICON and they have a Maule, a Vans, a Stearman etc. AND MS have gone to great lengths to improve flight models. But is there anything really new? Anything that good third party developers haven't given us yet? Anything that will even scratch the surface of A2A's Accusim?Oh - and to counter a valid argument I saw at the beginning of this thread - "Why am I still using Windows then?" I wish there was a viable alternative. All my work software comes from others like Macromedia, Corel, Adobe... I use MSOffice because my employers use it and there are cheap options ofr "home" versions that enable compatibility. Games? Mostly non-MS - Bethesda (great team) and others. For Flying, there is still only the MSFS series for me.And finally - I use Windows because I need an OS and Windows is the defacto standard. I pay for Windows and Office and I expect nothing but the best service. I don't get it unless I pay extra, but I still expect it. Yes I do read the EULAs and yes, I do realise we, the people, have been shafted. But at least with Windows and Office I get something at a price that I can pay "now". I dread to imagine what the world would be like if MS suddenly realise they could split Windows and Office into smaller modules and start selling them using their cowrie shell principle...

Humour is the best medicine...

Someone DOES read books then ;)You are right, of course - mea culpa!

Your welcome...My "essay" was actually aimed at those literate people who might want a spot of light relief from all this shouting about Flight by what, in some cases, can only be described as "the unknowing".