Sharrow

I certainly did not suggest that this whole affair is some clever marketing ploy. Indeed from a retail marketing and public relations point of view it was, and still is, being handled rather poorly. My point is that Orbx is likely not in a position to now explain themselves and set the record straight as this would require discussing issues which have nothing to do with their retail operations. Such discussions, as much as they would help ease tensions with some retail customers, would likely create all sorts of problems on the commercial side of things. It is not rocket science to see who Orbx would rather keep happy by simply keeping their mouths shut and making sure that their forums remain sterile.As usual, all the above remains pure speculation on my part.

Greed? Sure, it is the way the world works. We do, afterall, live in the age of scarcity. If you're not willing to play the game things get tough real quick.To me at least the direction Orbx is moving is clear enough. They are going commercial at full speed ahead. Think LM's P3D, the Australian military, all in an Orbx-esque world. As an off-the-top-of-my-head example. These types of scenarios are very expensive (lawyers, contract guarantees etc), they are very sensitive, and they are as far away from retail as one can get. Discussions of why on the Orbx forums are to be avoided at all costs. And so they are. If Orbx could tell us the why then they would have done so.At the end of the day the majority of us here will buy the Orbx addons we want in the future. It's hardly like we can get something similar elsewhere, is it? Those into grudges will perhaps not buy an addon they otherwise might have, but they will be a minority.

Ego's (and especially runaway ones) do not just pop up into existence. They are nurtured, fed, validated. History shows this clearly too. I just do not see this being the case here - we all know what an upstanding member of this community said ego has been. And then what? The clock struck midnight on Dec 01st and from the attic scratching noises could be heard...?My guess is that Orbx found itself between a rock and a hard place sometime in the last quarter of 2011. Tough, and no doubt controversial, decisions needed to be taken. And they clearly were. Only time will tell whether they were the right ones. What may today look like crazy business ending moves may in fact turn out to be the very same moves which allow us all to continue enjoying an Orb-esque quality simulated world in the future.Clearly there is genuine voice of discontent on this forum but don't kid yourselves into thinking that most Orbx customers feel like you do. Overall, how many Orbx customers were done in by the pre-pay debacle? A couple of hundred? A thousand? How many more were delighted to have been presented with such a generous sale? A sale, by the way, which Orbx clearly needed much more than keeping their pre-pay customers happy.

All this backlash as a result of one man's ego? Sorry, I just don't see it.There are other shareholders and partners, a lot of mods and admins, not to mention all the very talented developers contracted to Orbx and I just cannot see all these people being "held hostage" by a single ego.In my opinion the shift from developer to publisher (and a very dedicated commercial one at that) is what is going on here. The FSX hobby market is taking a back seat and resources are being realigned in line with the fundamental shift of focus. FSX enthusiast chit-chat is no longer what OrbX is about. Sorry. I've said it before and I will say it again: In my opinion everything that has happened with Orbx since December (perhaps even including the setup of this very subforum on AVSIM) has been discussed, assesed and factored in by Orbx.The above is pure speculation on my part, of course.[i edited out the references to an individual. Please refrain from identifying individuals.] Mod

That will be Abacus then. A firm favourite around these parts...

In my opinion Orbx cooked their pre-order business by design. The decision to milk it for all it was worth prior to said cooking was also done by design. The resultant backlash was clearly anticipated and it was deemed to be manageable. Simple as that.Anyone expecting anything else from a business entity simply fails to understand what a business entity actually is.

Excluding FSX folders from your Anti virus is indeed a good idea but over and above that there is little solid evidence that shutting down services and apps prior to running FSX will provide anything more than a placebo effect. Check out this thread over at Aerosoft for example. Windows memory management has come a long way since XP...

You sound surprised to hear not everyone runs the best enthusiast-class hardware money can buy?

Given the lack of any real evidence to the contrary I am going to assume that MSFlight is NOT something anyone here would be interested in actually using. What I meant was that such a bundling for free move of MSFlight would help to get fresh people interested in the world of flight simulation, something our hobby desperately needs. The fact that the age of the average flight simmer increases year on year is not a comforting statistic going forward. Not only that but it would familiarize people with the whole concept of purchasing add-ons and expanding your flight sim experience. Then, those who wish to move up to something more serious can look at FSX, P3D, XPlane or whatever else is currently on the market at the time. The elephant in the room is the potential of anti-trust, courtesy of the EU commision no doubt.

Such a move would be fantastic news indeed for our hobby.

Aerosoft had no such Flight forum. What Mathijs hid was a 2 page thread started by me on the 19th of September 2011.

Doing my bit wherever I can.

GLaDOS cake, surely?

Love, happiness and goodwill towards all mankind?

Thanks Al for the Accusim check and Simon for the EZCA tip - now if I could only get more than 70kbps out of my 4mb line... grrrr

Indeed. I skimmed through the A2A forums but did not see anything P3D related. Only a matter of time I guess...

Anyone had a chance to try any of the Accusim stuff in P3D? I see a mention of the A2A Cub which apparently runs fine but what about some of the more complex stuff like the B-17, P-47, Spitfire? Am also curious about the Turbine Duke, the Katana4X and the Lotus? edit: seeing as were getting into the RXP compatible stuff I read somewhere that there are issues with some things not working. To add to this my understanding is that only the commercial/cross-something-or-other version of RXP can currently be used with P3D. Perhaps it will stay that way making an already expensive product even more so but hey, if that is the case then so be it as we cannot, and indeed should not, expect that all developers will come to the P3D non-pro party with simmer friendly cross pricing strategies. Like most of us who already use it could not afford the commercial RXP licence anyway...

Thanks Sean.Will give this a go.

Better to make that mountain now and get it over and done with as opposed to bumping up against it sometime in the future when your investment in P3D could be significantly higher. And don't forget that developers and publishers will also want these EULA uncertainties cleared up long before they invest anything in P3D for non-professional purposes.

As a bit of a side note we recently got confirmation that Aerosoft will be releasing a P3D version of CorfuX. Free of charge for existing owners. OrbX will be releasing their P3D PNW demo next week - the user guide is already available on the OrbX P3D Forum here. The momentum is building and we're what, a week into this?

Fair enough. Case closed.

Hi John Thank you very much for the considered response! My apologies if I was not clear enough - the distinction between game/hobby/simulator according to the fs community is not at all the issue and I have no doubt that there would not be a single person here (myself included) who considers their fs simulator a game. However, as you point out the definition of what exactly it is we are doing (gaming/simming/learning/feeding our passion etc) is a matter of opinion and THAT is what "worries" me going forward. There just does not seem to be any guarantee that at some point in the future MS will not step in and annouce that according to them P3D is being used for entertainment purposes a bit more than they are comfortable with, especially so if MSFlight turns out to be something the fs community would indeed be interested in. At such a point MS may feel that P3D is cannibalising the sales of MSFlight and it may be difficult, if not impossible, to use matters of opinion as a defense. The above scenario, as unlikely as it may seem, is nevertheless something which I sense the fs community remains unsure about.

Fine line that, between a game and a hobby, or between a game and a simulator. Perhaps that is where some of the confusion is coming from?

P3D is for professional use first and foremost. We would be the commercial side of it if it catches on - something LM does not seem to have any issue with at all.

Will and payt - good luck with those dreams gents. The coffee is, however, getting cold...