torium

FSW is not completely dead - yet. 🐣 Chris Ellis (BlueSky) is a true enthusiast who supports the FSW community and writes, quote: "I'm extremely sad. I develop for three of the major sims in the market place and FSW had such a great future ahead of it. The PBR was better than all of the other sims at this present time and our Spit cockpit really showed that off. The out-of-the-box content in FSW surpassed the others as well, without the need for further add-ons. We'll still keep developing for it, maybe freeware, maybe payware, we'll see. It's sad when something likes this happens to my hobby turned into a profession." "The way I see it is that the more that the community can make for a sim the better. Yes I’ve poured hundreds of thousands of pounds into countless years of research, trips, photographers, sounds recording sessions and all the fun that goes into making aircraft modules but I love doing that. I’ll break even at some point selling modules but it’s certainly won’t make millions which some in the community seem to think. I really do it for the love, as do all of my team on various sim’s. Can I give something back to the community to ignite the same passion that my team and I have, yes of course I can. On countless streams with DTG I’ve talked about the SDK and how easy it is to integrate an aircraft into FSW and I’m glad to see some of the community interested in that and will help them develop their vision and dreams into a reality. Yes I’m very sad that FSW is no longer in development and I still think it’s one of the best sims out there for its graphical ability (read PBR in core sim here) and I fly all of the other major sims out there and develop for three others outside FSW. Will FSW die and no longer be used, only if we let it. Let’s cut the sniping out and move forward, after all this is our hobby and passion. Chris" It is really inspiring to see that someone cares!!!!

Always proofread can be a good habit. I mean, of course, PMDG (corrects so this does not need to be a discussion topic.)

Exactly. I bought a very good DLC quality product for FSW on Steam: Piper PA-28R Arrow III (Just Flight). I paid about $30. The FSX/P3D/X-Plane version costs $41.99. https://www.justflight.com/product/pa28r-arrow-iii So why can not Bobsk8 relate to facts? He is a living proof of how parts of the flight sim community live in their own "P3D-bobble". He gladly pays $11 more - because he does not have to pay to so-called money grabbers. Does anyone understand this logic? And then they claim that DTG is greedy when it comes to FSW.

I have no experience with DTG's Train Simulators. But I think we all now have understood your point: You have purchased a product from DTG, and then feel very cheated by DTG. It's never a good feeling. But could you give us an example of a DLC product for FSW (made by DTG) which is only 80% complete - and that they optionally will not complete? As another mentioned, - in marketing is alleged that: - "Having a better brand is better than having a better product." And you constantly confirms this assertion. You have focus on the company and not the product. The logic is that if your company has a bad director - then the product is really bad. It appears that if DTG started selling PDMG products, these products would also be garbage? Your bad experience with DTG's Train Simulators has often been used as an argument on Steam to condemn FSW. The FSW team has tried to nuance this criticism, quote: - "I appreciate the feedback, though if you'd allow me to be candid. It does appear that a lot of your feedback on Flight Sim World is directed at the Trains franchise. Flight Sim World is being developed by a separate team, who are passionate about aviation and eager to build upon the experience offered in Flight Sim World. We have (in my opinion) some of the most detailed aircraft in a base simulator, have overhauled the weather engine, expanded the range of missions on offer and are eager to continue expanding the sim further. If you've seen our content, development and direction post from Stephen Hood, you'd be aware that our goal is to not only build an evolving platform for the future of flight simulation, but to do so with "no vital pieces of FSW which I foresee only ever being available as a 3rd party addon." The FSW team and their product never got trust - because: - "Having a better brand is better than having a better product."

Does anyone know the status of the update to P3Dv4?

Good point. I already have that experience.

Then I can repeat Chris Trott's comment on Froogle, quote: "Flight1 and Aerosoft both took 50%+ of the sale price of an addon before the digital download revolution took hold and allowed developers to self-publish. Aerosoft is not a DEVELOPER first, they are a PUBLISHER first." "Money, money, money" (ABBA).

Yes, but in this context, I think your claim is incorrect. If FSW is a really bad product - no one will care. But FSW is - in my opinion - already a decent flight simulator - and had a great future potential (if you have used the latest update, you understand what I mean - and I'm not talking about DTG's finances). For example, FSW has 7 default airplanes with a payware-quality that far exceeds any airplane in P3Dv4. If you buy P3Dv4, then you must buy a payware airplane at a price probably higher than the entire FSW simulator. And then you've already ruled out a lot of potential newbies. And for example, it's fun learning a new plane using the new "simple" Cold and Dark feature. A feature that not only appeals to newbies - but also to me. Etc, etc, etc, etc, ... (Now, back to "PDF-reading"). What is really sad is that we have now lost this great potential for innovation and a new direction. Obviously, I understand that those who have invested thousands of dollars in P3Dv4, and have everything they want - and do not care about getting new blood to this wonderful hobby - do not care. Like Rob Ainscough, I also really hope that LM employs the resource people now available after FSW was dumped. We need more innovation.

See A32xx comment: Chris Trott commented on Froogle's video.

I understand that you have good contact with the LM core team. But do you think this is realistic, Rob? Is it realistic that LM will release part of the management to outside investors and/or external developers? This would be encouraging if it really is possible. Do you have any further comments on this scenario?

Yes, it may well be a good analysis. It may be the truth. This means that the market is very small - and likely to be less. As tonywob previously correctly pointed out, quote: - "[P3D] "aren't aiming to produce a consumer sim for the masses, but rather a closed/niche community of professional users (with deep pockets). FSW was aimed at normal consumers who buy games through Steam etc, it sadly failed and suffered exactly the same fate as FSX and Microsoft Flight. At least AF2 and X-Plane are still going strong and not showing any signs of dying out (Without these two sims, there would be no consumer flight sim available)". Exactly. Lockheed Martin confirms: [P3D] - "(6) for purposes other than personal/consumer entertainment". Not a consumer sim for the masses. Too bad. I do not know if Lockheed Martin really can - or have any interest in doing something about this problem. I'm surprised how many newbies who are struggling to understand. But as mentioned - Aerofly FS2 is luckily an exception, where it's easy to start your first flight (into the rather limited clouds): Steam --> download --> "plug and play".

This is what I think seems completely unrealistic. It's almost as if Elon Musk expected to sell his innovation before he had inserted the battery. We'll probably never know.

I agree with you. I am not an insider - and therefore I do not know what goes on behind the doors. DTG even say they have conducted an extensive market research. They have also had close contacts with developers with long experience with FSX and P3D. Then DTG have updated FSX to FSX:SE - which gave them profound insight about the software. On top of it all, DTG pointed out several times, quote: "Something we have said time and time again is that we are committed to this for the long run. We are realists, by that I mean we know it will take years to build up this new platform and the infrastructure around it to match the current landscape of flight simulation." So what went wrong? Did they count on a mass sale during the first year - of an unfinished product? It may not be called realism? I liked the attempt with MS Flight too - so I'm used to suffer defeat in this hobby. Now I have to move on - that is - go back to old FSX:SE. (But at least I also have Aerofly FS2).

Exactly. Spot on. But we hardly get it without anyone being willing to invest and take chances. DTG was willing to try - and are now in retrospect ridiculed for their decent attempt. It is claimed massive that they were too greedy. Cryss (DTG) answered: "When people say DTG are greedy . Mate do you know how much it costs to make a flight sim xD." Who is the next one who dares to bet their money in this mud?

I totally agree that: - "The blame for its demise is with their management". But surprisingly many from the flight sim community have almost applauding the FSW closure. They have condemned FSW from day one - without even trying the product.

And thus there are a number of new potential friends who will not be able to get into this amazing hobby. As a new friend just phrase it: - "Thank You Dovetail games for introducing me to the world of flying. I bought DFS and you taught me how to fly for under $15.00 .Thank You again for giving me FSW for free and challenging me more and adding to my experience in the world of flying .Because of your games I now look at flying and the avaition world with a new respect." So sad that so many in the flight sim community is only concerned with his own navel. But Aerofly FS2 appears to be a good option for beginners. Will also be interesting to see what Flyinside can deliver.

Actually a good summary with many good points.

Why can't we ask for advice if we are unsure? For me, flight simming is a hobby - and then I guess the license becomes more expensive. Therefore, FSW was easily accessible - especially for newcomers.

Thank you DTG_Cryss, for your enthusiasm and always positive attitude. Wish you and the developers of FSW all the best. At the same time, I hope that Steve Hood will give us FSW-enthusiasts an honest status report about FSW termination.

"The Dovetail Games (DTG) Flight Simulator Forums" might never have had as much visits as now. As the saying goes: They never came for a visit while he was alive - but at least they came to the funeral.

Thank you for a respectful comment, tonywob.

It is completely unrealistic. Dovetail made a decent attempt to change this - but you might not support it.

Please do not hesitate to give us your equivalent experience with FSW.

Thank you for your excellent comment, FlyBaby.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/389280/announcements/detail/3400657079130421004