torium

....but also take note that this project is innovation of new techniques (trial and error and testing = time-consuming).

Orbx explains the great performance: Timeline 16:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X4jVdQ1t10

"pixel pilots" - I like it. :smile:

Sparse information exists so far. Summary: Dovetail: "Flight School and Flight Simulator do share the same underlying technology. However, Flight Simulator is still in development and upon release will be a much bigger and more feature-rich experience than Flight School." I ask the same question: How much more..........

Agree, but not because of the little time. But because of another concept.

Yes, in the end - I hope. But let me continue my speculation above: Let us assume that Dovetail really developing a new simulator PLATFORM based on: - they want to create a platform that can be shaped (by anyone), scaled (by anyone) and modified (by anyone) so that you can engage and access the experience you want." ("access the experience you want" = must mean a platform that is opened up for you and me). Then i guess Dovetail will release their new DTG Flight Simulator PLATFORM based on an extended Flight School (64 bit). Dovetail: "Flight School and Flight Simulator do share the same underlying technology. However, Flight Simulator is still in development and upon release will be a much bigger and more feature-rich experience than Flight School." "access the experience you want" As an example - let's say I wish to fly helicopters. How can I do that - as Dovetail does not have it included. Then the DTG FS platform must be open for external developers. An inventive developer then create a helicopter based on his / her new ideas. This helicopter technology is new - so with FSX he must (like now) hack the simulator to get it to work. Unfortunately in this case it is not possible. "We want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified" says Dovetail. Then the helicopter developer can ask Dovetail (which is impossible concerning FSX) if they can open up a "new door" ("core-plugin"?) - so that his/her new technology can access their new simulator PLATFORM. Dovetail do what is needed - and will now have a stronger simulator PLATFORM (with new helicopter technology). We, the customers will get a new exciting addon (DLC) - and can pay a small fee to Dovetale (for the new "core-plugin") included when we buy this new helicopter-addon (DLC) from the external developer (through Steam?). This should be a win-win solution. Imagine PMDG, RealAir, A2A, Orbx, etc. in the same situation as the above example. Then we can really get innovative development!!! What is it Dovetails says: "Something we have said time and time again is that we are committed to this for the long run. We are realists, by that I mean we know it will take years to build up this new platform and the infrastructure around it to match the current landscape of flight simulation. However, with the help of the flight sim community and developers alike that is exactly what we plan to do. It will all just take time and a lot of hard work." Therefore, it is totally unrealistic to believe that we at the end of the year get a successor to FSX or P3D. It's not the schedule.

Yes - but HAWX and FSX is not direct competitors - though both are flightsimulators. I agree that Dovetail is vague and sometimes inaccurate in their statements. So where are you, DTG Martin? :smile: In the meantime I can speculate: Dovetail seems to have a clear goal - but still looking for the right path. Dovetail: "We have seen lots of comments saying that serious simmers want this and that, true simmers are interested in this, hardcore players want that feature. What is interesting is that a lot of these ideas and "wishlists" don't match up. Backwards compatibility is a good example. To some people this is extremely important. To others they don't want it. The more you focus on meeting the exact needs of anyone group of simmers the more narrow you make the scope of the final sim. For every one person that you include you end up excluding another." How can you solve these conflicting desires? Dovetail: "We don't want to exclude anyone. We want to do just the opposite - we want to give anyone who would like to get into flight simming the ability to do so. You might find flying long distances in a helicopter fun while someone else might hate helicopters and prefer fighter jet. Therefore we are not looking to lock down the experience to any one person, group or "market". We don't view it as gamers vs simmers vs hardcore vs casual. Instead we see people who are interested in aviation and want to spend their time engaging with entertainment around it. Entertainment and gaming can often be flash points for people. Again we don't see it that way. Whether you are watching a Hollywood action blockbuster, a small indie film or a documentary you are taking part in the same basic activity and using the same technology (a DVD, a TV, a DVD player). Your DVD player is simply a means of engaging and accessing the media. It is a tool with certain functions. It is how you use it that matters. This is our approach to DFS. We are not looking to create game or a sim or whatever you may call it that is focused around any one experience. Instead we want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified so that you can engage and access the experience you want." How can I make this clear: Dovetail - "want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified." But how? "We will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process. We are interested in seeing what people can do with a next generation flight sim. We want to see what can be, rather than just repeating the cycle of what is." "seeing what people can do" - does not mean what Dovetail can do! Dovetail has given us some input on how they think to solve this challenge. And they ask us: - "Take our survey and have your say in shaping the future of flight simulation." Hope as many as possible take this opportunity. :smile:

To be fair. Dovetail has not claimed that their new flight simulator will replace FSX. Dovetail: "FSX: SE is not going anywhere and we are not looking to replace it. We are not making a sequel or continuing the range of Microsoft flight simulators. It is completely its own thing and while developing it we are looking towards the future of the technology rather than connecting to what currently exists. Since we decided, almost four years ago, that we wanted to develop a flight simulator our focus has been on making one which meets the needs and desires of simmers. Not one that that competes with any other sim. It is aim to make a new true next gen flight simulation platform that you all want. That is what drives us, that is what motivates us to do what we are doing."

Aaaahhh. I see. :wink:

???? From the survey: "Please drag and drop from the box on the left into the box on the right." It is written left to right. :Nail Biting: That's correct. A good advice.

Spot on! I strongly support this attitude!!!

This is great. :smile: A powerful tool with a graphical intuitive user interface will be able to include many more users (with less computer skills). The goal must be that such a tool does not limit your creativity.

What we need least of all is an arrogant "artist" with weird ideas from Expressionism. :Shame On You:

Sorry if I misread your post.But DTG already - "listen to us and ask for input and feedback". And DTG already - "work with people who already have experience."

Dovetail has previously explained: Flight School is a "downgraded" simulator. Why? OK?

Let's speculate: :smile: I think it might be useful to listen to what Martin (Dovetail) has previously communicated: Dovetail: "The truth is if you are expecting all of that to be in place day one then you will most like be disappointed. It is going to take time and a lot ongoing conversations between us, you the community and the wider world of flight sim developers to build DTG Flight Sim into the new platform we all want it to be." Why? Because Dovetail lack both time and resources (financial/expertise). Therefore Dovetail invites 3rd part developers in their vision. As an example: Dovetail: "We have a great working relationship with Aerosoft Bruno, and over the past 2 years we have made our intentions clear with respect to welcoming and working with developers,..." And then it's obvious what 3rd part developers need: Dovetail: "We will provide developers with all the tools, documentation and support they need to create great new content for this new platform and will be working closely with them during that process. The key word here is "platform". I don't believe it's actually going to happen. Dovetail: "We are interested in seeing what people can do with a next generation flight sim. We want to see what can be, rather than just repeating the cycle of what is." Their vision is not an updated new FSX (recycling). Dovetail: "We want to create a platform that can be shaped, scaled and modified so that you can engage and access the experience you want." I think Dovetail will release an updated "DTG Flight School". A modular platform (engine) specially designed for DLC. Which can be expanded as needed. I would not be surprised if DTG FS will be delivered with just the three existing "Flight School"-aircrafts. And I think that 3rd part developers now working on new addons for the upcoming FS. Dovetail are working on: Dovetail: "DTG Flight Sim will be a much more detailed and feature rich sim than the narrow scope of Flight School. - A more robust and feature rich weather system is planned for DTG Flight Sim. - Sloped runways", etc. Not to forget: Dovetail: "Sure it could backfire on us but we are aware of the risks and believe this is the right approach to take." :smile:

Yes - Dovetail is currently very vague. My understanding of what Martin (Dovetail) said earlier can of course be misreading. But Martin has said repeatedly - that those who expect a new simulator as FSX (with many aircraft and a updated visual beauty, etc.) - will be disappointed. Dovetail has both limited time and resources. An analogy: Microsoft is developing OS (platform) Windows 10 ---> and Adobe developing Photoshop. Dovetail developing flight sim "OS" (platform) DTG FS ---> and A2A (and other) developing aircraft. Therefore Dovetail said: "Flight simulation would be nothing without all the hard work of third party developers, be them big companies or bedroom coders. For us, releasing DTG Flight Simulator is just the beginning. All of the really hard works comes afterwards once you and developers get your hands on it"

In my previous post (#15) you can watch a video (Developer Panel Discussion @ FlightSimCon 2016). Listen carefully to the first question (14:00 on the timeline) - and the developer's reply. As an example, John Venema (Orbx) earlier this year said: "What Orbx has been doing over the past decade is making our own 'FSX 11' by expanding past the 128-class barrier with hundreds of new classes. However this required us to hack FSX/P3D and that's why FTX Central exists. What we have now with DTG's new sims is virtually unlimited land classes defined and engineered by Orbx so that a decade's worth of R&D is now boiled into a new sim as part of its core. That gives us a fantastic foundation to build upon without the previous restrictions we always had to code around. Additionally there will be a lot of new tech in the visualization engine including new HDR, light scattering and other lighting enhancements." I really do not understand why this is bad news. If the sim community are satisfied with existing simulators - that's great. I have also been around since Commador 64 and Sub Logic days - but I really hope Dovetail carries out the vision they have for a new updated simulator-platform. I can't see that today's flight simulators is fully developed. I see a huge improvement potential for the future: Dovetail: "I need to make this very clear, our focus for Flight Sim first and foremost is building the game engine that runs the sim. .... if the actually game engine is not solid then you are just building on bad foundations. Our focus is on getting the underlying game engine to where we want to be first." Exactly. Make sure the foundation is solid. Dovetail: "Our biggest limitation is time. ....we want to get the new sim out some time before 2050." Yes, in 2050 I maybe use other wings. So do not waste your time to produce high quality aircraft and terrain etc.. (3rd part developers can take care of that part of the development). Instead use all resources to get the platform solid and future-oriented. Dovetail: "We are building a platform which can be continually expanded. We view it almost like an OS. The key word here is "platform." Just imagine what possibilities an optimized flight simulator "operating system" (platform) can provide the developers of terrain, aircraft, weather, etc. (A2A, Orbx, REX etc.). Dovetail say they will give us a new platform - not a new FSX, P3D or X-Plane. Do you understand the difference? :smile:

I hope Dovetail listen - and understand what is being communicated:

Concerning the ugly lighting - I'm guessing you would exit also this flight: http://cdn5.viralscape.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/London-England.jpg :Big Grin:

Yes - dropdown menu side scroller should have been wider. Maybe you can get some tips here:

. Come on Michael. :He He: Do you believe that prohibition would prevent existing flight simmers from DTG Flight School game play? When it comes to P3D (EULA), so please remember it is forbidden: "1. to hold the attention of pleasantly or agreeably; divert; amuse. substantiv: the action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment. synonymer: amusement, pleasure, leisure, recreation, relaxation, fun, enjoyment, interest,..." Certainly not a simulator for newbies who wants an enjoyable hobby! That's correct. But what do you expect from a cheap game that has the task to visualize the earth? I think it's acceptable out of the box. Dovetail requesting feedback relating errors, bugs, etc. Hope more will follow your constructive attitudes and gives Dovetail required feedback. They ask for it. :smile:

You're absolutely right. I chose a newbie. (Not a hardcore expert). You're right again. But who are always complaining? I think we'll find the answer here: And the message from Martin to us "long time flight simmers" has been quite clear: "The first point I need to make clear is that DTG Flight School has been developed for entertainment only. It is not an educational tool or designed to teach people how to fly a real aircraft. We wanted to create an experience which makes flight simming accessible to anyone who wants to try it. Doing this as a standalone release allows us to focus on tailoring the experience more at these players. DTG Flight School was never developed or intended for existing flight simmers. DTG Flight School has not been developed for existing flight simmers. To be blunt, if you already play flight sims then DTG Flight School is not for you."