coastaldriver

Nicely done and picks up the MD80 very nicely. I just updated the Laminar version and did not bother creating a new model as suggested. The only downside is XP updates will want to put back all the old files. Otherwise is good!

So cloud drift in front of the moon - XP12.09 - it does it! Yes this is insanely realistic! and dawn in the New Mexico Area

Does one presume 12.1 refers to a release date December the 1st? Seems that is the schedule. Not that I am overly concerned - the program achieves its objective already - to provide a acceptable representation of the real world and aviation. Scenery is not bad just needs tidying up, default in most places is accurate and realistically plausible - thats fine its not the real world. Flight modelling - goes with the aircraft concerned - so good as you want bad as you want. I know it has a rich development culture and well there must be a dollar or two because we have more high level aircraft to engage with than they do at MSFS - simple fact! All the Boeings, Airbuses, Embraers, Bombadiers, McDonnell Douglas, Beech, Cessna, Piper and so onto General Aviation. I am actually spoilt for choice and selection of very high quality simulator models and renditions of a variety of aircraft from the early years of flight until today! So yeah I can wait until December for some overhaul,

Natorden - sorry no cloud brightness at night is a function of the way light is produced, represented and manipulated in the sim. Whether or not V6 does this any better I cannot say as I have moved away from P3D for good and now only use XP12. XP12 does a much better job of light control and cloud representation without the need for any form of addon to manipulate the look.

Sounds like a job for this guy

OFT - this one used to live at Hoxton Park and then later Camden. Flew once or twice IRL myself. As for XP12 this is an XP11 model yet to be upgraded to functionality in XP12 . That is XP's greatest issue to my mind! That and the need to revamp the drag/weight couple (the lift calcs are fine but there is no corresponding drag curve, so as to get inertia response correct for all aircraft so the flight model is very very good but still a WIP (That would be a whole thread on its own).

Well it was an impressive screenshot of XP12. Model, Sky and Scenery almost picture perfect and the light-shading balanced and correct. Yep Alas a bit longer for some still a curates egg - good in parts bad in others! So no super screen gloss for me yet or have not found it overall more like this for me. Goran would appreciate this one he's been there!

Well curious to see how it goes. Not such a big fan of the Dash8 Q400 either. Still waiting for promised XP12 updates for some of their other wares - so till they are done it is a hold for me! That's all I can about support!

Me too interested how you go with it. Be aware we all struggle with control sensitivity and hence hardware-software connectivity with this sim. So is it realistic yes but getting the right 'feel' especially with yaw and hence rudder is difficult in this sim, there are some built in tricks re differential braking and rudder as well which make life challenging with a tail drager. In RL Rudder does not do much except move and really work as a control until it gets a good amount of airflow over it compounded now by slipstream effect. Of course it provides lateral directional balance as lifiting surface in its own right! I find it rudder overly sensitive with only a stick controller with a yaw twist ring! and very difficult to tune down so basically do nothing and then a little bit and maybe more when on the ground and not dance about once the tail comes up for flight! Same old same old though dont slam the throttle open on take off and expect to stay straight - you wont' gotta balance it it smoothly. Trickier in a cross wind too!

It is an honest replica (more right rudder?) Bonus lot of nice paints about for it as well

Yep there are a few about. The default Piper Cub is ok but there is a mod about to give it small wheels not tundras - flies realistically and well built default model as well. Default wise there is also the Stinson (bit of a truck on the ground and in the air really). I get into the Piper Cub a lot just for the fun of it simple aeroplane, good taildragger and well no AP so you have to hand fly it - no dramas. There is a freeware Cessna 170 that is very nicely done as well. Nice moderate size taildragger. Few biplanes about as well, mostly old Bellancas, There is a Citabria Decathalon as a freeware not bad either. Might even be Sukhoi aerobatic about as well not seen the Pitts Special or similar. If your into the oldies there is the AWX Tiger Moth which is first class, no brakes and skids on the ground (be warned) even seen some WW1 types like the Sopwith Camel. If you want STOL there is a very good Fiesler Storch as freeware, not to mention the RV10s etc which are about and well done as well. And of the course the veteran DHC-2 Beaver, free ware and payware for XP12 both are great. So all up really quite a few and all are fine in XPlane12. Reasonable amount of heavier metal available to, such as the Lockheed L10, the DC-3 and C-47.

That seems to happen frequently with XPlane - modellers or artists. Seen quite a few (MetroLiner or the L188 Electra are two other examples not the only ones) that have just stopped altogether or no more updates or fixes or whatever. I can understand to a point - but if you put it out there as a public offering, then you have to expect someone else will have a suggestion to do something better or make an improvement. I recall being remonstrated against for suggestion that some data on something was inaccurate and the change was minimal which offset a diatribe of lessons from history about people taking over projects etc etc etc. Another temperamental one I guess!

So you get - 720 and the 720B The paints are numerous at XPlane.org

There was a little interest after some recent screenshots in xplane n me (now in the screehshots slot. So why this aeroplane or xplane model? what is fascinating is that it is freeware available to the XPlane user community. It was built for XP12 so has transistioned along to 12.09 without issues. It has all the XP12 features - rain etc. Yet - this is a very high quality simulation model. High. The systems are all modelled and controllable via the 3D Flight Engineers panel and controls. Radio navaids are representative of the era - VOR ADF ILS. A neatly hidden subpanel gives you access to ground systems, doors etc. The reproduction of the handling, feel and control of this large 4 engined aeroplane is accurate. Engine starts can be tricky! No explanations for the fuel or electrical systems - need some Boeing guff for that! Takeoff and climb is smooth and it climbs well on high power . Handles smoothly and responds nicely. Aerodynamic stability of the swept wing and empennage is accurate. The model executes a very gentle slow dutch roll oscillation in the cruise. So did the real thing! Speed reduction for approach and landing is per the book and descent profile required. Speed brakes (spoilers) work well as do flap extensions and gear deployment. Reverse capable and handles nicely on the ground. Just remarkable this came from a complete unknown and it seems singular piece of work for XP12. Any thoughts or suggestions on the mods appreciated.

This model arrived without fanfare in XPlane 12 over a year ago. It seems to be a singular effort perhaps by Shensee (Japan?), he appears to have not done anything else. It is a carefully crafted rendition of the B720 and B720B not the 707 so it is very much the same as a Boeing 707-138 series (short body - big engines). There were a couple of mods and improvements that are available - namely a PBR package, some Navitab additions and a mod to put in a basic INS/GPS on the pedestal. The AP is reasonable and there is an improved FMOD package also done for this. It is remarkably good, flight characteristics, textures etc and a lot of work went into the lighting cockpit and cabin that gives this model a very immersive touch. So the base model by Shensee is very good but the PBR mods etc take it to payware level. So if you want a 707 this would be it for XPlane. The only other 707 was done by Mike Wilson for XP11, 707 300 and 420 and they have since been withdrawn from sale nor was ever updated for XP12 (It appears Mr Wilson may have sadly passed on!).

If your wondering about the front end where it all works all the lighting is ajustable, dimmable and can be set to suit your tastes this was pre-departure:

Nothing wrong with out the window look And inbound for visual RWY 11 Beiria Done and dusted All done with default everything, simple ground services provides the necessary. The Shensee 707 is a delight and a great effort and captures the 707 well down to the slow dutch roll in cruise.

Back to a little old fashioned heavy metal. The Boeing 707, in this case the Shensee B720 in disquise. Luanda in Angola to Beiria in Mozambique ala TAP. A pleasant run and nice to see both night, dawn and day. Interestingly timing was spot on for lighting etc and forecast or planned BOD for Beiria was 3.20am local and that was spot about 2/3rds of the way across what is a 1200 nm run. Welcome onboard (Nice cabin and lighting in the Shensee) Dawn on time and weather is fine

Airfighter - thanks

So yep I think the LES DC-3 is pretty good overall. The attention to detail and the construction with the textures is exceptional really, even down to the coffee urn and canisters on the galley at the rear! Flight modelling is accurate, performance is accurate. Sounds well - muted compared to the real thing both engine and airflow. That distinctive P&W synchronised rumble seems to elude everybody, LES, VSkylabs and AWX. Don't hold your breath for liveries or paints for it. Two days solid work and I managed a half respectable outcome but also had to reduce the texture sizes by 50% and could not get the layering sorted properly. The nml files are the most complex I have ever seen - almost kaliedescopic! Anyhow had a go this is acceptable but not for release - see if they come up with a paintkit - reverse engineering it has its limits. Its a keeper for sure. Can be done but this is well so so

I think the LES DC-3 handling discussion has for me raised what is an ongoing problem with respect to XPlane and the match or mismatch between the controls you use with the sim and how the sim appears to work. This issue really came out for me with the DC-3 and then Helicopters. First I guess is the unhelpful built in differential braking in the sim program (Myers let that cat out of the bag talking about control sensitivity set up etc) so you have to modify any model acf first to get rid of this aspect to even start to evaluate the controls. Second that sensitivity sim settings contradict or override each other so you can set the sensitivity or response one way but if you then use the curves they then override what the other settings are. Third each and every model I have has different responses in the sim. Some developers suggest particular settings, others other settings. To me it has actually come down to the fact that I have a joystick which has limited movement or excessive movement in really only two axis not three so I am relying on a rotating contact plate attached to a stick to replicate what completely separate control runs do in a real aeroplane - note there are no real aeroplanes that have the rudder controls combined on the yoke or stick! My view is that this program does try to come to grips with this issue but like a whole lot of stuff in the sim there are so many different hardware setups out there and updates, etc etc where do you hit middle ground or the most common denominator! Basically my joystick setup is rubbish really and no amount of calibration and fine tuning will overcome the limits of this being some cheap plastic gizmos moving a cheap electrical contact plate or activating a button on/off switch! I guess there are other systems out there with yokes and pedals are they any better no idea and I am cannot bring myself to spend that sort of money to find out they are only marginally better anyway. So I have learnt that no matter how careful I am I will overcontrol or get sharp responses by mere micromillimeters of movement of the stick. As for the LES DC-3 it is accurate in the way it appears to handle in the sim as far as I can see! So is the AWX C-47 and VSkylabs DC-3. As my personal experience on type showed and the NACA report confirms there were not directional stability issues with this aircraft at all, pitch yes and roll yes but all within the bounds of acceptable and controllable given the design in the first place. The stability issue can be explored in depth I guess but the simplest and easiest method is to get the thing in the air and then set up normal straight and level flight at normal cruise power by using the controls - will it stay level with no deviations (pitch, roll or yaw) or how much trim is being set to keep it like that! especially rudder or aileron trim! Then watch its behaviour does it deviate? how? Stability in aerodynamics is a complex problem but essentially if it is stable and well designed the aircraft will return to its trimmed state (S&L) of its own accord after a number of osciallations. IF it deviates and continues to get worse it is unstable or it wont return to the previous state then its unstable as well! See as usual no easy answers!

Yeah will investigate the flight behaviour tomorrow I have been working through the painting business - very tricky for a lot of reasons. What I am working on at the moment if this works out will have a go at the TAP for you.

Great to here Jcomm. Still no paint kit but had a dig around in the textures etc. They are big 8096x8096 DDS files excepting the normals which are png. With the trusty DXT BMP to help got them opened in my paint program and had a bit of a play around. Going to be tricky. Never ceases to amaze me how every model creator manages to come up with either the weirdest mapping of textures or hardly any. First pass on just some colour seemed ok, the all aluminium look is going to be a pain. Plenty of time to fiddle. Yeah and my wallets empty this month after the LES DC-3 and the XHangar C404. Plenty of time to fiddle with it!

FWIW - installed and taken for a quick circuit. I have to say this has been beautifully crafted so its fidelity is excellent the front windscreen centre pillar and join is a little sharp. A workout on the ground. Systems and starting is straightforward but taxying even with the help scripts from LES via the selection panel did not really help. Take off was straightforward and well it handled very well. I observed the need for rudder on the climb and the tendency for adverse yaw in the turns and the pitch control was what I would expect. So I give it 10/10 for its reproduction of the way a DC-3 handles and dare Few quirks with mouse actions on engine controls and trims which can make it a bit untidy. I say it 'feels' in the air. So very nicely done. Did not try out the AP but then for the Sperry you have to hand fly it to the desired attitude and set power and trim then engage it, it is not a modern autopilot or flybywire. It is the DC-3 and not the C-47 so there are some differences. Yep could make this one my go to Douglas DC-3. Getting another paint job for this one is going to be a major problem. For reasons best known to themselves LES have created this one such that each livery is in effect a full aircraft package requiring an .ini file to go with the skins. That is achievable and the reason I can see is that LES have tied the internal logic and monitoring systems to each one so it is unique and this in turn is accessed via the maintenance menu (that is it is a built in Real Engine system and is logging times and in phases such as props for overhaul vs engine oil changes) Problem is there is no paint kit, so where would you start? The texture format is going to be an issue being layered DDS. Now the killer each livery is a unique build so to speak so the file size is in the region of 190-400 mb for each livery or paint or model depicted. So basically your paint will need some 350 mb. That could be a real problem trying to upload to share at a lot of places! Not a single additional paint available anywhere for it other than those supplied with the installation. Gotta like Greek Airlines I guess to fly it or Buffalo Airways. So for the time being it is my go to DC-3 but not my C-47 that respect goes to the AWX or Jahn C-47 fairly equally with the V Skylabs version.

Well a load of interesting points made - the control option sounded interesting enough. Ok not wanting to derail this original post so leave those issues of aerodynamics and stability and tailwheel designs. So I succumbed and have bought the LES DC-3. See how it goes, a lot of things about it I liked from various material about. Curious it has not had any mention at all over at DC-3 Airways. So will it replicate the deafening engine noise inside, the stiff ground handling and the need to really work rudder and brakes on the ground to keep it where you wanted it - particularly trying in a stiff cross wind but once they flew they were great not light on the controls but no dramas anywhere really plodded along beautifully.