coastaldriver

That seems to happen frequently with XPlane - modellers or artists. Seen quite a few (MetroLiner or the L188 Electra are two other examples not the only ones) that have just stopped altogether or no more updates or fixes or whatever. I can understand to a point - but if you put it out there as a public offering, then you have to expect someone else will have a suggestion to do something better or make an improvement. I recall being remonstrated against for suggestion that some data on something was inaccurate and the change was minimal which offset a diatribe of lessons from history about people taking over projects etc etc etc. Another temperamental one I guess!

So you get - 720 and the 720B The paints are numerous at XPlane.org

There was a little interest after some recent screenshots in xplane n me (now in the screehshots slot. So why this aeroplane or xplane model? what is fascinating is that it is freeware available to the XPlane user community. It was built for XP12 so has transistioned along to 12.09 without issues. It has all the XP12 features - rain etc. Yet - this is a very high quality simulation model. High. The systems are all modelled and controllable via the 3D Flight Engineers panel and controls. Radio navaids are representative of the era - VOR ADF ILS. A neatly hidden subpanel gives you access to ground systems, doors etc. The reproduction of the handling, feel and control of this large 4 engined aeroplane is accurate. Engine starts can be tricky! No explanations for the fuel or electrical systems - need some Boeing guff for that! Takeoff and climb is smooth and it climbs well on high power . Handles smoothly and responds nicely. Aerodynamic stability of the swept wing and empennage is accurate. The model executes a very gentle slow dutch roll oscillation in the cruise. So did the real thing! Speed reduction for approach and landing is per the book and descent profile required. Speed brakes (spoilers) work well as do flap extensions and gear deployment. Reverse capable and handles nicely on the ground. Just remarkable this came from a complete unknown and it seems singular piece of work for XP12. Any thoughts or suggestions on the mods appreciated.

This model arrived without fanfare in XPlane 12 over a year ago. It seems to be a singular effort perhaps by Shensee (Japan?), he appears to have not done anything else. It is a carefully crafted rendition of the B720 and B720B not the 707 so it is very much the same as a Boeing 707-138 series (short body - big engines). There were a couple of mods and improvements that are available - namely a PBR package, some Navitab additions and a mod to put in a basic INS/GPS on the pedestal. The AP is reasonable and there is an improved FMOD package also done for this. It is remarkably good, flight characteristics, textures etc and a lot of work went into the lighting cockpit and cabin that gives this model a very immersive touch. So the base model by Shensee is very good but the PBR mods etc take it to payware level. So if you want a 707 this would be it for XPlane. The only other 707 was done by Mike Wilson for XP11, 707 300 and 420 and they have since been withdrawn from sale nor was ever updated for XP12 (It appears Mr Wilson may have sadly passed on!).

If your wondering about the front end where it all works all the lighting is ajustable, dimmable and can be set to suit your tastes this was pre-departure:

Nothing wrong with out the window look And inbound for visual RWY 11 Beiria Done and dusted All done with default everything, simple ground services provides the necessary. The Shensee 707 is a delight and a great effort and captures the 707 well down to the slow dutch roll in cruise.

Back to a little old fashioned heavy metal. The Boeing 707, in this case the Shensee B720 in disquise. Luanda in Angola to Beiria in Mozambique ala TAP. A pleasant run and nice to see both night, dawn and day. Interestingly timing was spot on for lighting etc and forecast or planned BOD for Beiria was 3.20am local and that was spot about 2/3rds of the way across what is a 1200 nm run. Welcome onboard (Nice cabin and lighting in the Shensee) Dawn on time and weather is fine

Airfighter - thanks

So yep I think the LES DC-3 is pretty good overall. The attention to detail and the construction with the textures is exceptional really, even down to the coffee urn and canisters on the galley at the rear! Flight modelling is accurate, performance is accurate. Sounds well - muted compared to the real thing both engine and airflow. That distinctive P&W synchronised rumble seems to elude everybody, LES, VSkylabs and AWX. Don't hold your breath for liveries or paints for it. Two days solid work and I managed a half respectable outcome but also had to reduce the texture sizes by 50% and could not get the layering sorted properly. The nml files are the most complex I have ever seen - almost kaliedescopic! Anyhow had a go this is acceptable but not for release - see if they come up with a paintkit - reverse engineering it has its limits. Its a keeper for sure. Can be done but this is well so so

I think the LES DC-3 handling discussion has for me raised what is an ongoing problem with respect to XPlane and the match or mismatch between the controls you use with the sim and how the sim appears to work. This issue really came out for me with the DC-3 and then Helicopters. First I guess is the unhelpful built in differential braking in the sim program (Myers let that cat out of the bag talking about control sensitivity set up etc) so you have to modify any model acf first to get rid of this aspect to even start to evaluate the controls. Second that sensitivity sim settings contradict or override each other so you can set the sensitivity or response one way but if you then use the curves they then override what the other settings are. Third each and every model I have has different responses in the sim. Some developers suggest particular settings, others other settings. To me it has actually come down to the fact that I have a joystick which has limited movement or excessive movement in really only two axis not three so I am relying on a rotating contact plate attached to a stick to replicate what completely separate control runs do in a real aeroplane - note there are no real aeroplanes that have the rudder controls combined on the yoke or stick! My view is that this program does try to come to grips with this issue but like a whole lot of stuff in the sim there are so many different hardware setups out there and updates, etc etc where do you hit middle ground or the most common denominator! Basically my joystick setup is rubbish really and no amount of calibration and fine tuning will overcome the limits of this being some cheap plastic gizmos moving a cheap electrical contact plate or activating a button on/off switch! I guess there are other systems out there with yokes and pedals are they any better no idea and I am cannot bring myself to spend that sort of money to find out they are only marginally better anyway. So I have learnt that no matter how careful I am I will overcontrol or get sharp responses by mere micromillimeters of movement of the stick. As for the LES DC-3 it is accurate in the way it appears to handle in the sim as far as I can see! So is the AWX C-47 and VSkylabs DC-3. As my personal experience on type showed and the NACA report confirms there were not directional stability issues with this aircraft at all, pitch yes and roll yes but all within the bounds of acceptable and controllable given the design in the first place. The stability issue can be explored in depth I guess but the simplest and easiest method is to get the thing in the air and then set up normal straight and level flight at normal cruise power by using the controls - will it stay level with no deviations (pitch, roll or yaw) or how much trim is being set to keep it like that! especially rudder or aileron trim! Then watch its behaviour does it deviate? how? Stability in aerodynamics is a complex problem but essentially if it is stable and well designed the aircraft will return to its trimmed state (S&L) of its own accord after a number of osciallations. IF it deviates and continues to get worse it is unstable or it wont return to the previous state then its unstable as well! See as usual no easy answers!

Yeah will investigate the flight behaviour tomorrow I have been working through the painting business - very tricky for a lot of reasons. What I am working on at the moment if this works out will have a go at the TAP for you.

Great to here Jcomm. Still no paint kit but had a dig around in the textures etc. They are big 8096x8096 DDS files excepting the normals which are png. With the trusty DXT BMP to help got them opened in my paint program and had a bit of a play around. Going to be tricky. Never ceases to amaze me how every model creator manages to come up with either the weirdest mapping of textures or hardly any. First pass on just some colour seemed ok, the all aluminium look is going to be a pain. Plenty of time to fiddle. Yeah and my wallets empty this month after the LES DC-3 and the XHangar C404. Plenty of time to fiddle with it!

FWIW - installed and taken for a quick circuit. I have to say this has been beautifully crafted so its fidelity is excellent the front windscreen centre pillar and join is a little sharp. A workout on the ground. Systems and starting is straightforward but taxying even with the help scripts from LES via the selection panel did not really help. Take off was straightforward and well it handled very well. I observed the need for rudder on the climb and the tendency for adverse yaw in the turns and the pitch control was what I would expect. So I give it 10/10 for its reproduction of the way a DC-3 handles and dare Few quirks with mouse actions on engine controls and trims which can make it a bit untidy. I say it 'feels' in the air. So very nicely done. Did not try out the AP but then for the Sperry you have to hand fly it to the desired attitude and set power and trim then engage it, it is not a modern autopilot or flybywire. It is the DC-3 and not the C-47 so there are some differences. Yep could make this one my go to Douglas DC-3. Getting another paint job for this one is going to be a major problem. For reasons best known to themselves LES have created this one such that each livery is in effect a full aircraft package requiring an .ini file to go with the skins. That is achievable and the reason I can see is that LES have tied the internal logic and monitoring systems to each one so it is unique and this in turn is accessed via the maintenance menu (that is it is a built in Real Engine system and is logging times and in phases such as props for overhaul vs engine oil changes) Problem is there is no paint kit, so where would you start? The texture format is going to be an issue being layered DDS. Now the killer each livery is a unique build so to speak so the file size is in the region of 190-400 mb for each livery or paint or model depicted. So basically your paint will need some 350 mb. That could be a real problem trying to upload to share at a lot of places! Not a single additional paint available anywhere for it other than those supplied with the installation. Gotta like Greek Airlines I guess to fly it or Buffalo Airways. So for the time being it is my go to DC-3 but not my C-47 that respect goes to the AWX or Jahn C-47 fairly equally with the V Skylabs version.

Well a load of interesting points made - the control option sounded interesting enough. Ok not wanting to derail this original post so leave those issues of aerodynamics and stability and tailwheel designs. So I succumbed and have bought the LES DC-3. See how it goes, a lot of things about it I liked from various material about. Curious it has not had any mention at all over at DC-3 Airways. So will it replicate the deafening engine noise inside, the stiff ground handling and the need to really work rudder and brakes on the ground to keep it where you wanted it - particularly trying in a stiff cross wind but once they flew they were great not light on the controls but no dramas anywhere really plodded along beautifully.

JComm - I have been looking at the LES DC-3 since it was announced, at the moment undecided as it would make the 3rd DC-3/C-47 in my virtual hangar. Like the look of it overall but very little about in the way of paints etc for this one. I noted your comments about assigning key commands for some controls. Can I say that the YAW or Directional instability your refer to in the VSkylabs and the LES was interesting and your comment that there are no flight test data about directional instability - correct, the aeroplane IRL had no yaw or rudder control issues not was it considered directionally unstable! Two comments here I have flown the real thing and I do have old papers and data on the DC-3 including a 1950's NACA stability flight test evaluation and report. There were some issues with respect to longitudinal stability (Pitching) caused by the Frise ailerons, wing shape and CoG and elevator control - in other words - it could be a little unstable rolling and pitching at certain CoG and speeds and required larger control force movements to correct displacement but it was not considered objectionable or uncontrollable, generally well behaved and quite controllable, perhaps pleasantly so!. There was slight rudder float (about the hinge) but nothing problematic. So for the real thing or its replication in the sim I would expect that it could get a little pitchy at certain speeds, which is why 3 pointers in this one are difficult (Ernest Gann called them a stiff legged brute if you tried) and a little untidy or unbalanced in rolling turns that is all. Never experienced that random or unstable yaw pattern IRL you refer to with the LES or the VSkylab. All the sim models are a pain with respect to controls especially taxying etc as you needed assymmetric throttle and braking application to get them turning on the ground which you just cannot replicate with your standard joystick/keyboard set up. The trick with the DC-3 was not controlling swing but not letting it become unmanageable quickly which is a characteristic by the way of any tail wheel aeroplane and its relationship between the CoG and its length and type of tailwheel (castoring ones are simple but can get you in a jam real quick) The yawing behaviour you refer to suggests that the overall fuselage shape-size plus control areas (Rudder fin etc) are not right my suspicion is that it is the flight dynamic math of the sim models (I noted the issue with taildraggers and MFS when the DC-3 and other taildraggers first made an appearance - they were terrible in this area seems some of those issues that relate to the design of a sim model in MFS as opposed to say FSX or now XPlane have diverged significantly. XPlane to my my mind is the most correct but not perfect either. I have issues with rudder sensitivity in the sim for every aeroplane and todate no amount of fiddling with control sensitivities etc has managed to completely fix this for me but effectively i set yaw sensitivity to being a slow change as control is introduced to a bigger change in the last few degrees of deflection seems to do it - sort of. This is one are where the Myers approach of built in braking at rudder deflection on the ground is a neat fix to help the learners so to speak but is just a pain that has to be edited out via the acf to get rid of this giving me hard braking at large rudder deflections on the ground once you get something serious as a taildragger like the DC-3. Will I get the LES - probably but not just yet. The AWX DC-3/C-47 is still my preferred version and the most realistic of all of them. The AWX Version is of course the original Manfred Jahn C-47 from FSX that has been completely rebuilt for XPlane, huge amount of effort went into the fine tuning the original Jahn design (gosh about 7 or 8 major updates in its long life). The team who did the AWX know the DC-3 well and work on one or two in real life in a Museum some where. Rarely fly the Skylabs version because of its ground handling habits! At the moment do not need another problem child in the hangar!

Impressive!

Not having XP11 precludes the delights of the FJS 727 and 737. It also precludes the delights of the Wilson DC-8 and Boeing 707-300s. There was a DC-9 30 sometime referred to as Rogers DC-9 that came up from the XP10 days to XP11 and with a couple of mods here and there is a very nice rendition of the Diesel! - sadly not for XP12 at all for all its reasons. FJS are well not high on my list of favourite developers - been waiting 18 months now for an update of the 727, Vague promises but nothing eventuates - cost them the sale of the Dash8 Q400 is all I can say. Complaints are ignored. Now the Wilson machines. For late comers to XP there was a very creative and talented single man modeller called Michael Wilson, produced the DC-8 the 707 and the Sandringham and had been working on a Comet 4 they were all packaged and sold via the Org Store but only for XP11. Some few years ago it seems some personal tragedy ensued with Michael - I suspect he died and well as for his estate or whatever who knows. Anyway the items once sold at the store have all now gone. But it is a reason you see skins for them in the library. His Short Solent looked stunning but I could not get it. I have come by versions of the DC-8 and the 707 and yes they will work in XP12 but there are some annoying bugs that you have to live with (No they are not pirate copies!). Big pistons ala the DC-6 by PMDG - shame they spat on the XP market and refused to sell it anymore for XP11 and not to upgrade it. Another developer goes to my z list. As for the Constellation - one never knows what somebody may be beavering away at but not seen any smoke on the horizon for such! Almost tempted to do the sale but have the 727 already and well the IXEG 737-300 is a close cousin and a very fine rendition so can live without the 200. The MD80 has to do for the Diesel experience.

Well yep that is XPlane doing its thing with the lighting correctly. Here is same time about sunset at gate C4 in default only with the Zibo 737 800 right on cue sun to the west reflecting of the windows on the terminal. Layout and buildings are quite different though in the zero dollar version.

Guess we could go to gate C4 at Anchorage and sunrise and see what it looks like!

XP12 blew me away today with its atmospheric realism - crisp textures, skies and weather - you watched the shadows of the trees dance on the lawn with the trees slight waving in the breeze, the windsock pickup and wander about - put your right at a small country airport in country Australia - in this case Moree - cotton country. The Manky Dash 8-100 on about its 8th version has really been well taken to payware quality - simply superb. No complaints, no criticism just sheer unadorned functional operation - and this is going to get better?

Interesting that the Developer-Builder Hangar 23 put this amount of work into an obscure piston single from the 1930s. It seems Bellanca only ever built 23 of these. So basically less than 2 dozen aircraft ever and forgotten by WW2. Originally called the AIRBUS so I guess it is entitled to be known as the 1st AIRBUS. 15 People and or 4000 lbs of freight at 155 mph. Good range. Could have been the first aircraft to have flown the Atlantic with Lindberg but they (Bellanca) had an altercation and Lindberg went with the Ryan instead. Sufficiently useful and reliable for many to have survived as workhorses in the Canadian NorthWest until 1974 - forty years!. Think Hangar 23 have the aerodynamics of this one right. As the original pilots complained about it has poor rudder control and effectiveness - can be blanketed on short final touchdown at low speeds leaving you out of rudder!. Plenty of power and well it trundles along I guess. Big aeroplane for a single. Might have gone a long way but for change to regulations knocking it out the single engine passenger transport role. The modelling and textures of this one are very nicely done and it all appears - accurate and authentic. All the doors work, the cabin looks suitably worn, nice instrument design and function and well all the controls are basic and simple. My only complaint the sound package they gave it is terrible sounds like buzz saw - swapped in a Beaver engine sound fmod and it is much more shall we say ambient to my ears. Can be difficult on the ground, needs a little ground room to manage and will swing badly on take off if your rough with power. Gets off and gets going at about 55 mph and climbs at about 100 mph with a good rate of 1200-1500 fpm. A float version as well would have been nice. They look very impressive on floats too!

Curious how a developer will do a quirky some may say obscure North American Bush Gullwing Biplane and do it to well - not sure- splendid rendition and in XP12. Payware yes by Hangar 23. Amazing quality and modelling. This Aircruiser was a strange beast, good STOL good lifter but noisy and uncomfortable. Worked well in the Canadian North and Artic areas. XP12 and nicely priced to my mind as well. Curious what

I had lost that tweak and the lighting had changed in XP12 but not in some areas. That single texture file did the trick. Very acceptable result and no issues with it in XP12. Appreciated The SeaWolf.

They are not the only ones I have several other similar! One in particular is supposed to be full XP12 already and exhibits a fatal flaw for the model and the sim - yet leaves no trace on the log of a hung system - note this is not a CTD but a hung system issue! All of XPlane is locked or frozen out - can I get a sensible response? Um not yet!

It is the core issue that is it is a fundamental difference of XP with other sims and or with XP12 or XP generally. The scripting and model architecture ties all instrumentation and objects to the cockpit and hence to the 3D model via planemaker. You cannot swap in or out without going to the core model, There are some things you can change in planemaker to have it recognise a particular GPS but the whole FMS/FMC in XP requires a complete upgrade and it is only done aircraft by aircraft as some will have noticed. The alternative is the creator or developer builds in a good FMS and FMC and hence GPS. I remain sceptical of the value of Reality XP with XP12. I get how it works a bit like A2A used to tweaking performance and settings behind the scene. Not convinced XP with its aerodynamic fidelity requires it at all nor with the high level scripting running via datarefs especially. More a problem for users is matching their controls to the sim! That makes all the difference. The base GPS is acceptable and there are a couple about all IFR capable, Light twins or singles high quality - no shortage of those either, Piston or Turbine. Some of the older piston twins like the Navajo or the Aero Commander are absent true. There is a great Apache by Restauravia as well. Lets not forget the quirky LET Morava 200 full IFR twin but very eastern european!