>Do you mind attaching one of the files that you see differ>from Terry's set? It seems unlikely that NavData would mess>things up like that.First file is the NavData (AIO) oneSecond file is the PMDG oneThirs file is Terry's

Hi Jan>Thanks for the answer, Terry. I think I have the correct>file: the name is "PMDG_SIDSTARS_0408.zip" for the latest>released AIO-package.OK, that is my file but I don't understand why you say "for the latest>released AIO-package". My file is not "for" the AIO file nor is the AIO file "for" my file. They are separate offerings and are developed from different sources.>But I always start with your download first,>Terry :) and then add with new or updated files from Navdata.That's the correct way to do it. RegardsTerry

>First file is the NavData (AIO) one>Second file is the PMDG one>Thirs file is Terry'sJust a little help here. The PMDG file and my file are the same. I send my terminal procedures file to PMDG who then posts it on their site for downloading. There is no need to download both.RegardsTerry

Hi Jean-Claude. Thanks for the feedback. I rarely get any with specifics.>Is this correct, can you confirm you have the same results or do >I have a problem with my database?LSGG - The DAFIF only has data for RWY 23. It appears for the PSS database it is not mine or has been modified with someone else's work.LSZH - The DAFIF only has data for RWY 14. It appears for the PSS database it is not mine or has been modified with someone else's work.LFPG - The DAFIF has no data for LFPG. The LFPG you have must have been made by someone else.LFPO - The DAFIF only has data for RWY 2. It appears for the PSS database it is not mine or has been modified with someone else's work.You have discovered an interesting problem caused by the system and misconceptions. Some background. I make the SIDs/STARs/IAPs for the PMDG, PSS and Aviograsf aircraft from the DAFIF database which is updated every 28 days. Besides a few private websites the other major "supplier" is navdata.at. It is very important to note that navdata.at does not produce any new SIDs/STARs/IAPs. That site only provides a place for others to upload their creations for PMDG and PSS and then consolidates them for download as an "AIO" file. He also, for PSS, integrates the newer uploaded SIDS and STARs with the old SID/STAR database that is shipped with the PSS planes. I think this is a very nice service he provides.Now the problem. Not much of one for PMDG since the database is composed of separate airports and there is a header file for each one that identifies the author. It is also easy to update the PMDG database because all you have to do is update with mine and then overwrite it with any other 3rd party airports you want to.PSS is not so easy unless you know the system. There are only two sources of new SIDs/STARs, 3rd party designers who use sources other than the DAFIF and mine which uses the DAFIF. As I mentioned most other 3rd party designers upload their creations to navdata.at where their work is combined with the old 2002 database that came with the PSS planes. This is fine as it provides a larger database but it is not clear in the file header that the bulk of the database is the default PSS one and the rest, about 18 airports, is 3rd party uploads from a few authors. I am finding out though that many people think the "AIO" file is all new SIDs and STARs. Now throw in my DAFIF offering. It is all new, 561 airports, but because of the single file format and not being able to identify which are the newer procedures in the "AIO" file it is all but impossible to combine it with the "AIO" file to get the newer 3rd party designs incorporated. This created a problem for updating. Which source to use? But I think I fixed that. See below.>What I am trying to understand is why are those databases so different >when they come (presumably) from the same source? Hopefully I've explained this above in that the sources are not the same.>Can one find a way to fill those huge gaps (the case of Paris CDG is >rather surprising NO approaches?!)For PMDG or PSS filling in the gaps means writing the SIDs and STARs yourself or seeing if someone has uploaded them to navdata.at. In some cases you can also ask for an airport in the respective forum to catch those authors that only put their work on their own site.For PSS though I wrote another program that inserts SIDS or STARs into a master database. By using my program (PSS Insert in avsim library) people can start with the old default PSS database, update it with my database and them update it again with any of the airports available from navdata.at, some other site or written yourself. You still have the old procedures but at least now you also can update with all of the newer ones available. Hope this helps you understand the situation.RegardsTerry

Many thanks Terry for this very detailed explanation that did shed a lot of light on this aspect I knew nothing about. This also demonstrates how much work is done by people like you, very often with little or no recognition from the simming community. We take it for granted that our FMC has to give us what we expect, not knowing that somebody had to compile and write this data for us to enjoy ourselves, the same often for free. Regarding the ILS frequencies, I wonder if there would be a way to make the ILS database part of the VOR and ADF databases since the latter are updated regularly, why is this a problem to have the ILS frequencies part of the same process, please do note that I do not mean the SID and STAR for the same approaches, I understood that these have to be individually written. Any hope on this one?Thank you again and happy landings.

>Jan,>>Do you mind attaching one of the files that you see differ>from Terry's set? It seems unlikely that NavData would mess>things up like that. >>The file name of your AIO file indicates you have changed it>during download. So you might by mistake has chosen one of the>other two downloads and typed over the original name. The>original names are PSS_AIO.zip. 767PIC_AIO.zip and>PMDG_AIO.zip. >>Oh and how many files are included in your package? In the PIC>it should be 79 files, in the PSS 1524 and in the PMDG one 382>files.>>Hope it helps,Mats, sorry for the incorrect filename. My fault. To fast and no brain. BUT - the fileformat still differs and in the very same AIO zip! Let me just say I noticed the differences, not if they have any negative consequenses.First attachement - ESSB as it should be, I thinkSecond attachement - ESGJ as it not(?) should beBoth from PMDG_AIO/Jan Bergwall

Very strange!!When I checked my attached files in AVSIM, they appears in the same correct format. But in my Notepad they look completely different. I suppose we can leave the subject now when it seems to be Notepad fooling me :-( Probably it have to do with the sign for CR, that varies between files.Sorry for all the fuzz. But sometimes it may clear things up if one gets the opportunity to discuss it. And that's what forums are for :) /Jan B.

I'm afraid I can not be of any help here. I do want to mention 2 things:1 - Thanks a lot to Terry and Stefan for offering the data each cycle. Very much appreciated!!2 - There was/is a thread about FS2006 wishes. One of the things mentioned in there is the creation of a single navigation database that can be used by FS itself and all addons (inluding ATC, VATSIM etc.). I can not agree more. At this moment we have too much discrepancies between the many databases in use. Microsoft should try to centralize this. I hope this will be realised some day...Regards,Henk-Jan

Yep, it would be very nice if Flight simulator itself would include the data, including SIDS and STARS this time, preferably in a non-proprietary format such as XML.And I agree also: a big hand for guys like Terry and Stefan for taking the trouble to provide the updates!Best,Martijn

Ah,Yes I know what you mean Jan. I've seen it on occasion as well. It seems some carriage return characters are not recognized in Notepad.I can recommend WinVi http://www.winvi.de/en/ for editing text files as it has a lot of more neat features than Notepad which IMHO is a very rudimentary program.Hope it helps,