I know I mentioned this in another thread but this is really disappointing. Seeing PMDG modeled turbulence and wing movement, it's sad you can't look back from the cabin or VC and observe those large wings when flying through the clouds hitting rough air... :-hmmm

Yup - no wing views from 2D or VC on the 747? after the very long development time on this project it beats me that PMDG would release it like this? i'll wait until they fix it first.

Like it or not, this is not a bug. PMDG addressed this matter in the support forum prior to release. As best I recal, they indicated that this was an intentional decision made in order to allow the proper functioning of other features, with which the wing views would have interfered with. Before you ask, no I do not know what these featrues were.Andrew

Andrew we need wing views viewable from within the VC, there's no excuse for this one... I wish I was on the beta team because this and the sounds would have been high on my list. It's unrealistic to fly this aircraft look over and not see the wings. Why make a feature like wings bouncing from turbulence only viewable from the outside (90% of our time should be in the cockpit, right???). PMDG is the main advocate of systems modeling yet here's a great example of useless eye candy more than I've ever seen (with any title). If this add-on's true intention is in cockpit systems modeling, why waste time on external eye candy that isn't functional from within the cockpit??? What good is a wing bouncing on the external model going to do for me in the cockpit (that I can't even see)??? It's a useless feature because it adds nothing to flying this bird (and I emphasize 'NOTHING')... It would have made more since to have the wings bounce in the VC and static (in that respect) on the outside, that way you have even more of a substitute for feel when you can look over and see the wings bouncing when flying through the clouds... I can't believe PMDG of all developers made this kind of a sacrifice in the cockpit (wing views were Ready For Pushbacks greatest feature, Ariane of all developers did a great job in this area as well)... :-boom Imagine, a mighty 747-400 and you can't even look over and see the huge wings and engines in action... Wow.... :-roll

Dillon,If I recall correctly we had the discussion with the real world drivers what you actually see from the seat position if you turn your head. And the conclusion was that you 'might' see the wing tip on the left side but definitely no engines. And you would not see the wing at all on the right side. EDIT: I've recaped the mails about this. It seems this was discussed in the PMDG forum long before release. Vin was not too keen on throwing in the extra polys for the wing views which according to the ones who work with the plane should look like this:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/123940.jpgCheers,

"Imagine, a mighty 747-400 and you can't even look over and see the huge wings and engines in action... Wow.... :-roll"I am surprised they modelled the passenger cabins without the wing view. Having such features almost encourages simmers to explore and enjoy the sim from perspective of both passenger and pilot. Many designers balk at adding wing views--Mike Stone notably, because they feel they detract from aircraft performance. In this case, PMDG perhaps felt the wings would tip the scales between acceptable and unacceptable performance. However, my experience--coming from having the slowest system on the planet now--shows that wing views don't have a measurable hit on performance. I know I've mentioned that to Mike and those designers who feel they either don't belong or could tip the scales of their projects in a negative way, but sometimes it just falls on deaf ears.Since I wasn't planning on getting the product (no fault of PMDG, just not the genre that interests me most these days), I can't be critical of their decision--just in here to give some reasons why they might have made it, and there may be more.-John

Hej Mats,But they spent a huge amount of time in modelling a cabin. So,..my question is,..why bother creating a cabin, if you can not sit on long haul flights, looking out on those beautiful wings/engines? ;-)

http://www.scandicair.com/images/Banner_douglas2.jpg

Don't know about the huge amount of time but yeah they apparently did create a cabin which you can out into. But no wings to look at... ;-)Cheers,

"If I recall correctly we had the discussion with the real world drivers what you actually see from the seat position if you turn your head. And the conclusion was that you 'might' see the wing tip on the left side but deifnitely no engines. And you would not see the wing at all on the right side. So there..."Just to add another perspective, we were returning from Frankfurt in the early 80's and caught in a wicked series of T-storm cells. The first officer came into the pax cabin to visually inspect the wings (I am assuming for signs of icing since we couldn't break free of the cells). About that time I decided to order another beer, I think :)We ended up in Philly on that flight after being diverted from JFK. Row upon row of 747's lined up--took two hours for Philly to get us all off the aircraft.-John

The model is already at FS's internal part limit - the VC would have had to sacrifice functionality to show the wing. Watching the wing is secondary to an accurate cockpit in my book.And the real world drivers all verified the sounds as very close to what they hear on the flight deck Dillon - you would have been told the same thing had you been a beta tester...

Ryan I'd do away with the cabin in order to have the wings viewable. Especially the effect of bouncing in turbulence. There's no excuse having that feature in the external model and no wing at all in the VC. I don't care how little you see (judging from the pic above), it's unrealistic to look back there and see nothing... :-erks This is something that's just wrong in a 747-400 simulation...

>>Just to add another perspective, we were returning from>Frankfurt in the early 80's and caught in a wicked series of>T-storm cells. The first officer came into the pax cabin to>visually inspect the wings (I am assuming for signs of icing>since we couldn't break free of the cells). About that time I>decided to order another beer, I think :)>I must say, that is definately NOT something I'd like to see if I was on that flight... I don't drink often but I would definately start again, yikes!

Thanks for the info. Perhaps getting rid of the virtual cabin frees some polygons for the wings? That's a tradeoff I would gladly accept although I do think the virtual cabin is nice. So better yet, an option to keep the virtual cabin or the wings.The design of virtual wings seems to be a technical concept well known to PMDG (e.g., their previous 737 with winglets - nice!).

Hi,If performance was the reason, I think you should have been able to sacrifice the VC cabin for wing views like that, as during taxi, you want to see where your wings ARE, right? ;)I would get rid of the cabin in favor of the wing view any day.I'd like to highlight a flaw with an above post: QUOTE: "...And the conclusion was that you 'might' see the wing tip on the left side but definitely no engines. And you would not see the wing at all on the right side..."You can't see the engine from the flight deck AT ALL? You have posted a photo showing.. an engine! Go figure. :-rollBest regards,Vulcan.

>Ryan I'd do away with the cabin in order to have the wings>viewable. I am glad you mentioned "I" because I don't think others would take this tradeoff. Considering how little you can see of the wings (from the flightdeck) "I" think it was a wise decision.Michael J.