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Guest aarskringspier

Wing View on the 747

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Guest aarskringspier

No wing views by default however you can use walk and follow to get a pretty decent one.

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Didn't take long for this wingviews issue to surface on the new forum. This matter certinly got a good thrashing in the previous one (on the PMDG site). See the last thread on this topic (now read only) on that forum - the score seemed to be advantage the pro wingviews lobby. I also notice a thread on the matter in this current forum left over from last August that summarises the pros and cons very well for those interested in this controversial topic. I was going to purchase Walk and Follow as it seemed to be the only way I would ever get wingviews on my PMDG 747 but compatibility issues keep appearing. The latest I have seen has to do with the operation of RXP Garmins. It seems that if you have W&F the middle mouse button function doesn't work with the RXP Garmin GPSs.Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Like I've said before, sure everyone has their differents likings why I think there should be a way to choose what you want...a photorealistic 2D panel with wing views or a VC without any wingviews for example just like with the 737 series. Especially with an addon in this price-range.And yes...of course PMDG can do whatever they like and think is best (and they do...) but still when you as with this specific issue alomst have like two different "camps" of customers I think you should respect that as a company.


Richard Åsberg
Beta tester for FS2Crew and HiFi Simulation Technologies

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Hi Armen and thanks for your tip!I know of the Walk and Follow product and that it will give you wing views and more but I'm not that eager to buy yet another product just to have wing views and was hoping that PMDG would provide them in the base package or in an update considering how many people asked for it. I also already have Active Camera and then it would even more feel a bit strange to buy another product that is almost the same.But again...thanks anyway!


Richard Åsberg
Beta tester for FS2Crew and HiFi Simulation Technologies

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Hi !Can somebody please explain to me me exactly how do get a wing view with Active Camera? ( I do have the latest version)Thanks in advance.Chris

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Hello Chris,The problem is you can't get any wing views for the 747 with AC since PMDG only modelled the wings in the external views and this is exactly what bothers me and lots of others. But I still hope PMDG will please us in some way in an upcoming patch/update.To me the optimal would be if you could choose from two different models - one with 2D panel only and modelled wings so you can get wing views and then another model with virtual cockpit/cabin but no modelled wings since I understood the reason they left them out was to save on the polys and framrate. That way everyone could pick the model they like regardless if you're the VC or wing view type of guy.


Richard Åsberg
Beta tester for FS2Crew and HiFi Simulation Technologies

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Gents-There are certainly no shortage of opinions on the topic of whether we should include wing views, whether we are morally obligated to include wing views, whether the fact that we elected not to include wing views has caused five eathquakes, two hurricanes and a series of tornados.....However...Folks keep forgetting some feedback that I have already provided on this topic.... We attempted to add wing views to this airplane during beta testing. We found that on the high end development machines we use (PIV 3.8Hgz, 4GB of memory, top end vid cards) that including the wing views caused a significant and very noticable drop in FPS in other areas of the sim.On mainstream test rigs, we saw a reduction in FPS that in some cases exceeded 50%. It is not popular to say, "we are simulating the cockpit of the airplane," because so many users like to simulate the cabin experience- but let me be really candid here: Our primary focus IS the cockpit... Like it or not- this means that if we have to shed something in order to improve FPS or maintain FPS- I can assure you that it will come from areas that do not impact the experience of flying the airplane.....Additionally- we ran into some hard limits within MSFS that prevented some of the simpler solutions we tried.So- in short- there are ways that you can set up to have a wing view for yourself if you like- they have been discussed in this thread...We do not anticipate added latent wing view capability to the 747 as it has to large a negative impact on resource usage in other areas of the sim....(And because there is always SOMEONE who says: "how do you know?" Well.... We wrote it, didn't we? sheeesh.... We tried it- it didn't work....) ;-)


Robert S. Randazzo coolcap.gif

PLEASE NOTE THAT PMDG HAS DEPARTED AVSIM

You can find us at:  http://forum.pmdg.com

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Hi Robert and thanks for taking your time answering this washed out subject.I understand what you say and I fully understand you will start removing something from somewhere else than from the cockpit if you see performance issues but that's exactly what I said in my post you replied to...that you could have chosen a similar approach you did with the 737 series where the user could pick the model he liked himself depending on what's more important to him/her...a model with a virtual cockpit/cabin but no wing views or a model with only a 2D panel but with wing views or are you in fact saying that the wing views caused a too large performance hit even with only a 2D panel? I'm far from an expert when it comes to modelling aircrafts for FS and poly counting but was under the impression that the virtual cockpit plus the virtual cabin together must equal a greater impact on the framerate than a pair of wings if you put these two configurations side by side?Enjoy the weekend Robert and yes...I'm STILL hoping to see some PMDG modelled 747 wing views...;-)


Richard Åsberg
Beta tester for FS2Crew and HiFi Simulation Technologies

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For the record, perhaps you could confirm that an option to remove the virtual cabin would still not provide enough headroom to have wingviews.I mean the LDS 767 works fine with this arrangement with no noticeable impact on frames so how much more difficult can it be for the PMDG 747?It seems to me that without wingviews the virtual cabin is useless.Thank youBruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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Guest pierre974

Actually, considering the advantages and drawbacks of added wing views, I DO PREFER a rock solid aircraft (as it is yet) compared to an airplane with wing views but low FPS...I think PMDG's choice is right. Those who crave for wing view can purchase nice utilities that enable it.But this is a neverending debate...

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I agree with you Pierre that what's most important is a rock solid aircraft but as I suggested higher up in this thread you could have the option to choose wether you want a virtual cockpit/cabin or simply a 2D panel but with wingviews. Then you can choose yourself what you think is most worth to you without suffering from any FPS drawbacks.And I do know there are programs (actually only one I know of) that would provide wingviews but honestly I don't find it that amusive to buy yet another product for $x just to have the wing views when I already paid quite a lot for this a/c. I wonder how people would react if there was only a 2D panel and wing views and then you had to buy an additional program to get the VC. Might be a stupid comparison but hope you get my point - I never use the virtual cockpit nor the virtual cabin because I simply prefer a photorealistic 2D panel with good wing views.And yes...I know there are other products that would suite me better in that aspect but I really do like the PMDG products and have been flyging them for years now why I of course most of all would like to be able to get what I want in this products without having to buy additional products or maybe even leave PMDG for another developer. And this is exactly where I was hoping PMDG would realize that they would benefit from providing an a/c that suits more than the VC types...and I know I share my opinion with lots of other people why I think PMDG should take our opinion seriously...but then again that's theirs decision to make.


Richard Åsberg
Beta tester for FS2Crew and HiFi Simulation Technologies

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I would just like a clear statement from the developers that the way wingviews were supplied for the LDS 767 (ie wingviews in VC view but no virtual cabin) is a non starter with the PMDG because of these alleged performance issues.Alternatively, what exactly would we have had to do without to have wingviews?Bruceb


Bruce Bartlett

 

Frodo: "I wish none of this had happened." Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

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